Seems some fans are turning on Warnock

Yes, if all the ‘best’ managers are under contract it leaves us gambling on someone out of work who may or may not be suitable, or giving someone inexperienced a shot which is an even bigger gamble. It may be noble but it’s also very limiting.
It leaves to put it bluntly has beens and novices.

as warnock was a misnomer as he had officially retired when we approached him so that’s why he wasn’t in a job as otherwise he’d have been in the can’t touch pile.
 
But why is it noble though ???

As this is the view I don’t get as what’s different taking a player from another club but not a manager.

and his stance will have no absolutely no impact on others sides taking our manager from us either.
 
But why is it noble though ???

As this is the view I don’t get as what’s different taking a player from another club but not a manager.

and his stance will have no absolutely no impact on others sides taking our manager from us either.

It’s noble, or can be perceived that way, in that it’s done for some higher ideal, ignoring the fact we do it for players and probably coaches and other staff. Whether it’s sensible is another argument and yes, you’re correct, it won’t stop another club doing it to us.
 
I think Warnock's greatest quality is his motivational skill.
It must be nigh on impossible to motivate players in the latter stage of their contracts, or merely on loan to give their all when promotion has gone and the reality of their position is crystal clear to them.
Warnock has tried to motivate players like Howson and McNair not because they would be his first choice as recruits, but because they have some ability.
He has tried to motivate limited journeymen because he needs the numbers.
He has tried to motivate young players who are not ready by putting them in the squad and others who are old enough but not good enough by putting them in the team.

This summer will see him move more players on, I am sure of it.
What is recruited will be interesting. I see 2 scenarios.

1. Conservatism in paying no fee/low fee or loaning Warnock's choices on decent wage shorter term contracts that Gibson can cover.
2. Gamble on spending and recruiting Warnock players on the sort of contracts that will motivate them to come, but leave Warnock's replacements stuck with them a la Monk and pulis.

Either way, Warnock will have a squad he wants and he will be able to do what he does best (motivate) through a full season.
I am confident Gibson will choose the lowest risk 1st option.
If we are flying on New Years Day, Warnock might just carry his squad home.
If not, then we will comfortably stay up and a new manager will be able to build to his design without the past baggage.

Moving Warnock on now would be ridiculous for a lot of reasons.
Appointing Warnock saved Gibson's bacon, but I hope he gets the next appointment right, he has backed the wrong horse so many times in recent years.
 
The final third of the season has been awful. I have posted this many times over the past few weeks but there are a couple of things that stand out for me, which make me doubtful about another season of Warnock.

One is the Blackburn game, Warnock actually mentioned that himself yesterday. "The Blackburn game killed us," he said. I agree with him but would absolutely love to know why that was. We should've had a penalty and played against 10 men, and we lost Fry for a handful of games after, but how can one moment like that change the course of an entire season? I always had the sense that we never really recovered from it and hearing Warnock reference that game yesterday was interesting. I do wonder what happened to us from then on because we were flying at that point. In fact we went to Forest in February and put in our best, most complete performance of the season so we were still capable of doing the business.

Second one is the absolutely mental decision to start wanging on about next season when there were still a dozen games to play in this one. I think we were 7th. "Next season we'll have a right good go, are you with me," may look like a great campaign to sell season tickets on paper - it is, to be fair - but how about we concentrate on the current season where, you know, we're 7th and in with a great shout of the play-offs having allowed you to add Bolasie, Fisher, Mendez-Laing and Kebano to your squad? I cannot get my head around such an experienced manager writing off a season that had been full of so much promise so early on. He must've realised what putting so much emphasis on the next campaign would look like. I think the team, on a subconscious level at least, were given an out by that. If the manager doesn't believe then why should they?

We have had some injuries too - our squad is not deep enough to cover the loss of Fry and Tav in particular but also Dijksteel and Morsy. Tav is absolute class, his importance cannot be understated IMO. It is imperative we add a similar player in the summer. And the striker situation is mental. We managed to finish 10th without one, essentially.

The end of this season just feels like such a shame. I was absolutely loving it for a while, I liked the way we were doing our stuff. We were drilled, nice and solid, had a style of play - it was effective football, quite direct of course but we played some effective stuff doing that and when Tav is in the middle of the field we play some good football - but it has ended quite badly. The football has been dreadful for weeks and Warnock's selections and public statements become more muddled and, at times, plain odd.

Obviously he will be in charge next season so if he can find better strikers than Akpom, add a good 'keeper and strengthen the middle of the field then we should be good for a play-off push. With Warnock's teams you never know, we might be 10th again or we might win the league. I suppose that's what you get from him and it will be interesting at least. If he can get us back to how we were for the first two thirds of this season I'll be happy, TBH.
Exactly my feelings Viv.
 
Monk was a long term plan, Woodgate was a long term plan. The problem with long term plans is that everyone has them until they get hit in the face.
Exactly. We’ve had long term plans and the same people whinging now wanted the long term plans sacked when the results weren’t to their liking.

Honestly don’t know what kind of club some people think we are? We are not loaded and can not sign Premier league quality, but that’s just not registering with some.
 
Honestly don’t know what kind of club some people think we are? We are not loaded and can not sign Premier league quality, but that’s just not registering with some.
You don't need to be loaded you need to be well run. Norwich aren't loaded, Brentford aren't loaded, they both have a philosophy and strategy that and get the right assets playing assets and manager to support it
 
Both Norwich and Brentford have built steadily, selling the odd player and investing wisely. It may help Brentford to be based in London I think nowadays its easier to attract players to London and a lot of young players are coming from the London area.

We do probably do need around 7 new squad players next season - we can't start the season with 3 new players like last season.
 
It’s not even about a long term vision either we just want to see a plan because as it stands today we have no goal keepers on long term deals at the club and no strikers either.
 
Exactly. We’ve had long term plans and the same people whinging now wanted the long term plans sacked when the results weren’t to their liking.

Honestly don’t know what kind of club some people think we are? We are not loaded and can not sign Premier league quality, but that’s just not registering with some.
Definitely not loaded, I think most fans have agreed since 2019 that was true. Woodgate had to sell that summer and was not allowed to spend much. Even in the summer of 2018 we sold more than we bought. I think its settled down financially (except for Covid losses) with those on big contracts gone or about to go. Financially we probably now have a lower budget than at least half of the Championship, but Barnsley have shown its possible to get top 6 without spending big.

Cardiff, Huddersfield and Stoke will have to reduce their budgets and possibly Swansea if they don't get promoted after living off Premier League money. There are other clubs like Forest (£31m on player wages in 2019/20) and Derby who have big budgets based on promotion and must have to cut back, even Birmingham and Blackburn were paying more than us and finished below us.
 
I said half a season, I believe it was three quarters in when the tide officially turned ;)

I wanted him out long before the Swansea match, I just didn't expect Gibson to actually sack him.

We were in the relegation zone in February and had went 10 games without a win before that narrow Charlton victory.

Middlesbrough 2-2 Derby
Fulham 1-0 Middlesbrough
Middlesbrough 1-1 Birmingham
Middlesbrough 1-1 Blackburn
Brentford 3-2 Middlesbrough
Wigan 2-2 Middlesbrough (10 man Wigan)
Middlesbrough 0-1 Luton
Barnsley 1-0 Middlesbrough
Middlesbrough 0-1 Leeds
Middlesbrough 2-2 Nottingham Forest

The writing was on the wall after that diabolical Barnsley defeat, and it had been building for a while before that.
 
We lurch from strategy to strategy, that’s the issue. Sack Monk but bring Pulis in, 2 completely different styles. Then back to another style, sack Woodgate then bring Warnock in.

I‘ve been clear I’m not a fan of the incumbent for a variety of reasons, however the reason he shouldn’t be here next season is that the club needs to stop thinking from season to season and put in place a longer term strategy. As an example Norwich have an aim of being in the top 26 of the English game, as they’ve realised boom and bust isn‘t sustainable particularly given the finances of the owners.

Building something more sustainable in the long term and giving the club an identity must form part of the thinking.
 
Both Norwich and Brentford have built steadily, selling the odd player and investing wisely. It may help Brentford to be based in London I think nowadays its easier to attract players to London and a lot of young players are coming from the London area.

We do probably do need around 7 new squad players next season - we can't start the season with 3 new players like last season.
Brentford have also never been in the PL. Unlike Middlesbrough who’ve spent 50% of the PL era actually in it.
 
Brentford have also never been in the PL. Unlike Middlesbrough who’ve spent 50% of the PL era actually in it.
Yep, and 1 season in the last 13.

Brentford have slowly improved over a few years thanks to a consistent strategy despite turnover in players and managers. They were in League 2 the year we got relegated under Southgate from the top flight. They‘ve had 5 seasons in the top flight in their history.
 
It leaves to put it bluntly has beens and novices.

as warnock was a misnomer as he had officially retired when we approached him so that’s why he wasn’t in a job as otherwise he’d have been in the can’t touch pile.
Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink is not a has been or a novice .
He is also out of contract soon.
He has learned his trade in the lower leagues , and has the character and charisma to be a success .
He would attract players , he also knows all the best players from the lower leagues , and his contacts in holland and elsewhere would mean we would scout wisely .
 
What higher ideal though? Ie the one thing no one else in world football does.

What does this even mean

It makes no sense.

I’m not saying it makes sense or that I agree with it, but it’s the way we have been operating and it’s likely down to the beliefs of SG.

Whether he hopes his stance will be reciprocated when other clubs are looking for managers, or another reason, I haven’t the foggiest!
 
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