Rumour on One Boro re Warnock and if we lost today

[jimmyjazz]

How am I stretching the truth?

If you add up their reported transfer fees, we have spent up to £10m.
Those are the facts.

Obviously I am aware we haven't spent £10m in one big lump, it will be in installments over years.

I also never said money was the issue, it's clearly the performances on the pitch, but you're the one who wrongly said we'd barely spent anything and I've corrected you on that.
It might be less than our parachute payment and promotion seasons, but compared to the rest of the division we have invested heavily, especially considering the finances of the Championship right now.

Well you are stretching the truth by including a fee for Siliki in this window. The transfer is dependant on conditions that you and I have no idea about. What to say its not dependant on promotion? Im sure other teams have similar transfers too.

Also, I said barring Payero we haven't spent that much, which we haven't. We paid fees for Ike and Crooks. I just don't get you're argument of saying when 'you've spent as much as we have...' He's not exactly done a Gary Monk has he?

Anyway, each to their own. The main issue for me is the lack of game plan, cohesion and fight,

 

[jonny_greenings_sock]

Would be very surprised if he’s been given an ultimatum because Warnock doesn’t come across as a manager under any pressure at all.

I wonder what our expectations are for this season?

If it’s to drift, try and sneak a playoff place, rebuild the squad a bit and have Warnock keep the seat warm for the next manager then fair enough, but I wonder what’s the point. Feel like we’ve been given the sense that the team is in some kind of transition for years, and it’s always about next season - the last time I truly felt we went into a season focused on a goal was Karanka’s playoff and then promotion season. For me, that’s managers downplaying their responsibility to give them an excuse when they’re not challenging, it’s not really good enough. Woody could reasonably claim that we were cutting costs and rebuilding, but not the rest of them.

For me, despite everything we’re still a big Championship club and it’s not like Newcastle United just signing Joe Willock, we invest in every window. The pressure should be there to be challenging the top 4, every year.

 

[erimus86]

It's not been a great start, but surely time has to be given for the team to gel and for a new playing style to form. It could take half a season. A lot of our more crucial signings were only made at the end of August and we'd already been struggling with injury before that.

 

[Uwefuchs]

Other than Payero we spent funk all, and we we needed a substantial amount of players. Using money spent, against Warnock right now just doesn't fit. It's the football that is the issue. Not the money he spent.

You are nitpicking, Warnock has been backed in this window. It doesn't matter when or how much we will be paying for the new arrivals, he's brought players in.

Just like January when we brought a few decent players in on loan, Warnock has been better supported from his chairman than most managers in this league and just like the back end of last season he isn't delivering.

When Wayne Rooney at Derby is outperforming Warnock then you know something is going wrong. Even look at Mowbray at Blackburn he's doing a great job with a fraction of our budget.

 

[Craggsy2]

You are nitpicking, Warnock has been backed in this window. It doesn't matter when or how much we will be paying for the new arrivals, he's brought players in.

Just like January when we brought a few decent players in on loan, Warnock has been better supported from his chairman than most managers in this league and just like the back end of last season he isn't delivering.

When Wayne Rooney at Derby is outperforming Warnock then you know something is going wrong. Even look at Mowbray at Blackburn he's doing a great job with a fraction of our budget.

When you say Warnock has been backed, are they his signings though? I really don’t think selling Morsy and bringing in Payero and Silki are his type of transfers. It seems to me there are two different schools of thought going on at the club which is causing a confused approach In the way we’re are playing at the moment.

 

[uncle_rico]

When you say Warnock has been backed, are they his signings though? I really don’t think selling Morsy and bringing in Payero and Silki are his type of transfers. It seems to me there are two different schools of thought going on at the club which is causing a confused approach In the way we’re are playing at the moment.

If Warnock isn’t being backed with the signings that he wants or needs then he shouldn’t be the manager.

 

[jimmyjazz]

You are nitpicking, Warnock has been backed in this window. It doesn't matter when or how much we will be paying for the new arrivals, he's brought players in.

Just like January when we brought a few decent players in on loan, Warnock has been better supported from his chairman than most managers in this league and just like the back end of last season he isn't delivering.

When Wayne Rooney at Derby is outperforming Warnock then you know something is going wrong. Even look at Mowbray at Blackburn he's doing a great job with a fraction of our budget.

You are probably right I am nitpicking to some extent. But I'm not denying he hasn't been backed, nor am I saying the players he's got in are good signings but underperforming. What im saying is you can't exactly hold it against him as if he went out and spunked heaps of coin, because he hasn't.

 

[Uwefuchs]

When you say Warnock has been backed, are they his signings though? I really don’t think selling Morsy and bringing in Payero and Silki are his type of transfers. It seems to me there are two different schools of thought going on at the club which is causing a confused approach In the way we’re are playing at the moment.

Crooks, Peltier, Ikpeazu, Lumley, Olusanya, Hall were all his signings.

He talked about having input with the Siliki signing and the Hernandez signing.

That only leaves Sporar and Payero doesn't it?

Then look at last January we brought in Bolasie, Kebano and Mendez Laing, from reading Warnock's comments last January he seemed happy with all those signings as well.

I don't think he's having signings forced on him either, he's been pretty well backed in my opinion he just isn't getting a tune out of the squad.

 

[Uwefuchs]

You are probably right I am nitpicking to some extent. But I'm not denying he hasn't been backed, nor am I saying the players he's got in are good signings but underperforming. What im saying is you can't exactly hold it against him as if he went out and spunked heaps of coin, because he hasn't.

No I'm not holding anything against him in regard to the money spent, I just think we have far better players than the league table suggests. The football is awful to watch as well, I'd be more patient if they were some signs of progress.

I just think Warnock would be better suited to a job like Derby where there's no money and its backs against the wall. When there's a few better players in the squad, a few different nationalities and expectation from the fans he's not cut out for it.

The bottom line is he's been backed with better resources than 75% of other clubs in this division and he's making a mess of it.

 

[Craggsy2]

Crooks, Peltier, Ikpeazu, Lumley, Olusanya, Hall were all his signings.

He talked about having input with the Siliki signing and the Hernandez signing.

That only leaves Sporar and Payero doesn't it?

Then look at last January we brought in Bolasie, Kebano and Mendez Laing, from reading Warnock's comments last January he seemed happy with all those signings as well.

I don't think he's having signings forced on him either, he's been pretty well backed in my opinion he just isn't getting a tune out of the squad.

One big issue I have is that Payero cost most of our transfer budget and also indirectly meant we had to move Morsy on to balance the books. Based on what I've seen so far he seems like a Project Emnes type which is strange considering the current times where money is tight. He might come good in 6 months but if we have thoughts of getting promoted this year then this signing just does not add up.

 

[Muttley]

if we have thoughts of getting promoted this year then this signing just does not add up.

I've said all along that I think we are not "pushing all out" to get promoted this season. The appointment of Scott and the imminent departure to pasture of NW suggest to me that Gibbo is looking to remodel the club on a more sustainable basis with a medium to long term aim of re-establishing us in the PL. That doesn't mean that we have no intention of even trying to get promoted just that there is a longer term plan at work.

 

[Uwefuchs]

One big issue I have is that Payero cost most of our transfer budget and also indirectly meant we had to move Morsy on to balance the books. Based on what I've seen so far he seems like a Project Emnes type which is strange considering the current times where money is tight. He might come good in 6 months but if we have thoughts of getting promoted this year then this signing just does not add up.

Yeah Payero certainly seemed like a signing for the future, I got the impression that Siliki was the Morsy replacement even if he's a slightly different player.

We do seem to lack a solid holding midfielder but I don't think Morsy was the man that was gonna make or break promotion.

 

[Craggsy2]

I've said all along that I think we are not "pushing all out" to get promoted this season. The appointment of Scott and the imminent departure to pasture of NW suggest to me that Gibbo is looking to remodel the club on a more sustainable basis with a medium to long term aim of re-establishing us in the PL. That doesn't mean that we have no intention of even trying to get promoted just that there is a longer term plan at work

Yeah Payero certainly seemed like a signing for the future, I got the impression that Siliki was the Morsy replacement even if he's a slightly different player.

We do seem to lack a solid holding midfielder but I don't think Morsy was the man that was gonna make or break promotion.

He would have kept us in the league though, hopefully it won't come to that!

 

[Laughing]

He just isn't a very good manager and should never have been appointed. Wasnt his last promotion 2011 with qpr and he was sacked the following year. Our did he also get Cardiff promoted in 2017?

In any event there isn't too much success there with 8 promotions in nearly 50 years.

I didn't rate him before he came and don't rate him now.

 

[uncle_rico]

Yeah Payero certainly seemed like a signing for the future, I got the impression that Siliki was the Morsy replacement even if he's a slightly different player.

We do seem to lack a solid holding midfielder but I don't think Morsy was the man that was gonna make or break promotion.

I think that the Payero signing is one of making a quick profit. Its a risky game to play but I get the feeling that they think they can sell him on in year or two for a decent profit.

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

The stuff about signings not being his - are we the only club in the league/country who works like this? Forcing players on a manager when he doesn’t want them, etc. How do the clubs at the top of the division operate? Is it only clubs in the bottom 6, 8, 10 places who sign players without the manager’s blessing?

What is the excuse with the January signings? They were all Warnock’s players, the wingers he wanted and Fisher is a Warnock type. The form drifted, as did our season. All the players signed last season came with his blessing. You can pull Akpom out but Warnock only tried to distance himself after Akpom had started to struggle. He brought 9 other players in last season as well. Plus gave his blessing on the Hall deal. That’s a whole team of players.

Another team of players have pitched up this summer, plus a couple of subs. Payero was quite possibly a more ‘collaborative’ signing in that scouts in Argentina/South America recommended him and the club wanted to do it. The team responsible for recruitment, of which Warnock will be a huge part of, decided to do it. The manager supported it.

I just can’t buy this idea that managers like Warnock and Pulis are some kind of shrinking violets, just sitting there quietly while the chairman and Bausor go out and buy players they don’t want. Warnock has had two dozen players in in just over a year. Four goalkeepers alone. He’s been well backed and handsomely supported by the club. If the team isn’t getting results then it’s his responsibility, just like he was getting all the credit - quite rightly - for keeping us up and having us challenging in the first half of last season. You can’t have it both ways.

This stuff he’s been gently drip-feeding over the past 6-12 months about signings is designed to deflect and divert attention. He did it again this morning. It’s nothing more than self preservation IMO.