Repeat after me ‘bald, fraud’

Agree it isn't.

But personally I think winning the CWC with Aberdeen is a much more impressive achievement than winning a CL with either of Real/Barca.

And as for 'testing yourself at Barca/Real' - that IMO is not a test. How many times has league been won by one of those teams?

It's like saying going to Scotland as manager of Celtic or Rangers is testing yourself at becoming one of the greatest managers of all time.
What so winning the CL at Barca isn't that impressive?

(Careful now.....)
 
It’s a good season but if they lose to Chelsea it doesn’t end the debate. He’d still be a manager who hasn’t won the CL in over a decade.
Sir Alex Ferguson 'only' won 2 Champions Leagues in his long career, the same as Guardiola. If he didnt win that final one in 2008 would there be a debate whether he was one of the best.

I usually have no time for Champions League football, but I make a point of watching Pep's sides. They are a delight to watch. He's a phenomenon
 
Sir Alex Ferguson 'only' won 2 Champions Leagues in his long career, the same as Guardiola. If he didnt win that final one in 2008 would there be a debate whether he was one of the best.

I usually have no time for Champions League football, but I make a point of watching Pep's sides. They are a delight to watch. He's a phenomenon
In that scenario yes there would have been question marks over his European record (if there aren't already).

In the same vein, if they'd beaten Barca in 2010/2011 he'd have three CLs to his name and be up there with Paisley, Ancelotti and errrr Zidane (who is on the brink of being out on his own at the top)...
 
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And only 1 manager has won a European cup with Aberdeen
Not a proper one.

Anyway this is all highly subjective now.

Pep is a good manager, I think he needs to win the CL again soon though to be deemed one of the best.

To change subject slightly, if Zidane wins a fourth this season, should he not be considered one of the best? No one seems to take him seriously.
 
To change subject slightly, if Zidane wins a fourth this season, should he not be considered one of the best? No one seems to take him seriously.

You don't win it 3 times solely through luck, but they definitely won it in 2018 through massive dollops of fortune.
They stumbled through every round and Karius handed them the trophy n the final.

It also helps that they had one of the best players in history in their side, I think most managers would have done well with that side.

They've often "struggled" in the league under Zidane too, though he did well to win it last year.
 
The guy is great at what he does.

That said, I think he's openly admitted that his methods might not work with lower quality players. I don't think he has sufficient flexibility in his style to adapt to a club where he doesn't have top players and a massive budget. You may well ask why he'd want to, fair enough. However, a great manager can adapt to the circumstances that he finds himself in, and Pep has never been in a situation when that has been required.

I don't blame him for this, but he is the poster boy for a lot of the playing out from the back nonsense we see now. When it's done by average players, it's as unattractive as catenaccio or long ball football. It's not that style that has made Pep successful: it's that style combined with the players to play that way. If the mediocrities trying to ape the style think it will make them better teams, they should think again.
Barcelona b
 
Ferguson's European record was only decent, it wasn't amazing and it took him quite a while to get to grips with the Champions League after the Heysel ban and English-based players' lack of experience in it. He was a fantastic domestic manager. World class? Well he is the best manager the PL has ever seen, but he wasn't the best manager Europe has ever seen and if he'd desperately wanted to prove himself as that he'd have gone to Real/Barca etc like Jose and Pep have done.

Pep is a world class manager and I've never said otherwise. What I've repeatedly said is that if he wants to settle the debate about whether he's one of the best of all-time he needs to win the CL at City. You don't agree? That's fine.

I have never called him a fraud or said he isn't a good manager.

FWIW my biggest problem with City, far more so than their fans, and as I've said repeatedly on here is 'sportswashing'. Its dangerous to our society. I couldn't care less about the Glazers using United to service their debt. I don't like it from a football perspective as such but morally speaking it isn't on the same scale.
Could you link that Sportswashing programme again?
I meant to watch it but didn't and can't find it now. Thanks if you do, or try.

I expect it exposes the disgusting abuse of Abu Dhabi/UAE construction workers.
I think we would find horrible immoral stories behind the owners of all the top clubs.
PSG' s Qatari links will be very similar to City's.
Abramovich' s money is not remotely legit.
Leveraged buy outs like that of United make my skin crawl.
How the Yanks and Joe Lewis of Tottenham quite made their money will be riddled with exploitation and abuse in some way.
Rich people very rarely make their money nicely.
As money has exploded within the sport it attracts the despicable to feed off it.

I like at least what City's owners have done for Manchester' s east end.
I don't at all see what the others have done for their neighbourhoods.
I will watch though if you link.

I think Guardiola is already great personally and I really hope he wins the big one this season and more to come - assuming Warnock doesn't catapult us there!
 
Could you link that Sportswashing programme again?
I meant to watch it but didn't and can't find it now. Thanks if you do, or try.

I expect it exposes the disgusting abuse of Abu Dhabi/UAE construction workers.
I think we would find horrible immoral stories behind the owners of all the top clubs.
PSG' s Qatari links will be very similar to City's.
Abramovich' s money is not remotely legit.
Leveraged buy outs like that of United make my skin crawl.
How the Yanks and Joe Lewis of Tottenham quite made their money will be riddled with exploitation and abuse in some way.
Rich people very rarely make their money nicely.
As money has exploded within the sport it attracts the despicable to feed off it.

I like at least what City's owners have done for Manchester' s east end.
I don't at all see what the others have done for their neighbourhoods.
I will watch though if you link.

I think Guardiola is already great personally and I really hope he wins the big one this season and more to come - assuming Warnock doesn't catapult us there!
Its just a discussion rather than a programme but interesting and crystallises some of the fears I've had about Man City (not just them) from the start.
 
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No mean feat. Can anyone else match up to this? Zidane maybe? Will we find Roma in next year's final too with the wonderful Special One?
 
Can we all agree that he is bald though? And as the last 12 months has shown being bald can be a massive benefit.
 
You can compare records as much as you like, but for me it's the transformative effect he has on the style of football of his teams.
Of course he has been given the funds and has massive talent pools at his disposal, but as I said earlier, he makes players better. The fact that others try to emulate his style and methods should be enough validation that his peers hold him in high esteem. Also, the fact that many struggle to make his methods work is testament to how good he is.
 
To change subject slightly, if Zidane wins a fourth this season, should he not be considered one of the best? No one seems to take him seriously.
Which is staggering really considering the ***** he has to put up with at Real. They aren't really "Galacticos" anymore either really when you compare the current squad to the ones of old.
 
Which is staggering really considering the ***** he has to put up with at Real. They aren't really "Galacticos" anymore either really when you compare the current squad to the ones of old.
True. An ageing Benzema is their best player now.
 
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