Rebuild for next season

[edinboro]

I don't think people worried about the teams coming down read the news. Leicester have just written off over £100m of debt to the owner. They will not be spending big. All the teams likely to come down are a mess. If Dyche stays I'd prefer Everton to stay up now.

I'm thinking Scott will get us some early presents to cheer us up.

It's sad how the season ended but I am excited to see what squad we have next season and how Carrick learns from this. He is 6 months a manager. He will be better next season which should be brilliant.

 

[Soutra]

Selling Akpom leaves a 30 goal hole who else would fill that. Saying that he was going to leave last summer and if he did no one would have really cared.

I have no idea, but the club has scouting staff who do.

The point is that recruiting new better players will be expensive, and with the lack of FFP headroom Boro have, the smart way to do it is cash in on an asset.

The gung ho approach of 'going for it' is a huge gamble. Fail to get it, and the club is in real trouble. Risk needs to be considered, the implications for failure are huge.

 

[FishofContemplation]

Selling Akpom leaves a 30 goal hole who else would fill that. Saying that he was going to leave last summer and if he did no one would have really cared.

Exactly. Selling 22-23 Akpom leaves a 30 goal hole. Selling the Akpom of previous seasons would be a case of “someone paid for him, I’d have driven him thier myself”.

That’s Carrick’s biggest decision (other than his own future possibly). Is the Akpom of this year the new reality? In which case hang on. Or is he going to regress to a more “average” level? In which case, cash in while his value is high and do it now. I’ll be honest, given his age I’d expect the latter, but Carrick has far more material to judge on than I do.

 

[uncle_rico]

It's all down to whether Akpom is offered, and indeed accepts, a new contract. If he doesn't then he'll be off as we can't afford to let him run down his contract and go on a free. I get the impression he is happy at Boro, but if a Prem club come calling then I'm sure he'd want to go.

 

[Caesium137]

Cf - we’ve played with one cf in the squad since Carrick came in. Muniz was rubbish, Akpom moved to 10 and crooks was backup. Crooks will be sold. 2 incoming I reckon with different strengths for different games.

CF could depend on the replacements for Ramsey and Jones? If we get a couple of quality 'wide forwards' or whatever you'd call them, I think Forss could do an adequate job up top. He's energetic, gets stuck in and is a pretty good finisher.

If we have Chuba netting 15 or so (), Ramsey (maybe comes back) and another getting into double figures and McGree rotating with them getting a few we may be alright for goals without a prolific front man.

I do think (I have for years) we miss any sort of power, athleticism and aggression throughout the team, we are pretty small, weak and often bullied and overpowered by teams we should beat.

I'm not saying I want a Pulis hoofball team, but a dominant centre half, a Boating/Veira type to replace Howson and a cheap Gykores type who is more natural CF than Crooks to give us the option of actually winning, holding and retaining the ball can only help.

If a couple of these hypothetical players could actually attack the ball on a set piece that would be splendid too.

 

[atomicloonybin aka ALB]

It's all down to whether Akpom is offered, and indeed accepts, a new contract. If he doesn't then he'll be off as we can't afford to let him run down his contract and go on a free. I get the impression he is happy at Boro, but if a Prem club come calling then I'm sure he'd want to go.

He'll end up at somewhere like Wolves, score about 5 all season, sit on the bench most of the way. I do love him as a player. but there's a nagging thought that this season has been a fluke. He was pretty poor the last few games, played more in hope than expectation.

If I were a lower Premier League team, I'd be looking at the likes of Fry, Hackney and McGree. You've got a bunch of players who the manager might want to move on - Jones, Dijksteel, Bola, Fisher, maybe McNair, maybe Crooks. Clarke has been a bust and pointless.

Chuck in the loanees who we won't be able to keep and we need help everywhere. The problem with this division is that you feel you start again from scratch every season; look at Huddersfield this year who nearly got promoted last year, and this season needed another clubs point deduction to stay up. Loanees are a real problem especially when we became so dependent on them.

Of the four playoff clubs I thought we might be the best equipped to make a go of it next season as well. You can only see Coventry or Luton (and Sheffield United) being in the bottom three all season. You can't imagine that the likes of West Brom or Norwich will be as terrible either.

And then there's the manager. Moyes is hanging on by a thread at West Ham - would Carrick say no to a club he has a lot of connections with, has a decent set up and probably money to spend?

 

[Borokian1876]

He’s literally said he will be.

The concern I have now is wondering whether Carrick benefited from a new manager bounce. We lost momentum towards the end of the season and haven't been able to recover from it.

It will be so important that we get off to a good start next season, because it could go the same way it did with Wilder if we pick up from where we left off.

As for the loan players, will there be many Premier League clubs interested in them? I think there may be one or two willing to take a punt on Archer because his stats whilst he's been here do make for good reading but as for the others, I'm not so sure.

Huge difference wilder DID not want to be here. He lost the dressing room if carrick stays these boys obviously love him and playing under him. Carrick has done a good job, but his inexperience at times has shown which he will correct. A lack of leadership and spine which sheff utd had and when we got close to catching them we collapsed, I still worry carrick might go. If he doesn’t. We will do well very well.

 

[Piccadilly Day Tripper]

I think we've actually made more progress much more quickly than I anticipated when Carrick was appointed back in October.

We're in a position for the first time in years where the recruitment model matches the head coach, and there shouldn't be that constant conflict and compromise of the Warnock and Wilder era where certain players were brought in, or not, over a load of arguments. We might be about to see the fruits of the hard work done to cut our financial cloth over recent years too.

I'm actually excited about what could happen next. Some of the players that are due to return from their own loans like Coburn and Hoppe, as well as the players we've brought in over last 12 months makes me think the foundation for next season is solid. Players come, players go.

I could see Giles being offered a contract here, and with all the musical chairs at Wolves, they might have even forgot he is up here. Akpom - it feels like a wonderful story that is going to fizzle out. I can't see him matching his heroics next season.

One thing is, I reckon Carrick has been given a lot of leeway as he's got us playing good football, scoring goals and I think the bar of expectation has been low, but in some of the games that have really counted (Burnley at home, Coventry last night, Hudds away, maybe Stoke at home) we've lacked that cynical edge to turn games in our favour when the football isn't working that I know Wilder was trying to find and Warnock often complained about.

 

[BoroMart]

So you advocate 'serious recruiting', which is potentially going to lead to the same FFP problems in 2024, 2025 and onwards?

Selling Akpom is the way to fund new players.

Gibson seems to operate a cycle of ‘go for it’ if it doesn’t work, financially cut and go again in a couple of years.

We have come out of the cut back cycle this summer, we considered coming out early last summer which may have been a big mistake.

You have to invest to grow. We haven’t got enough assets at the club which we own and yes we may need to sacrifice Akpom or fry, so be it. But I’d expect us to be the biggest spenders outside of parachute clubs this summer. Remember we nearly spent about 8m+ last summer on a forward. Wouldn’t be surprised to see something similar. We won’t go spend 15m on a player but I wouldnt be surprised if our outgoings were above 15m with maybe one player sold.

 

[BoroMart]

Huge difference wilder DID not want to be here. He lost the dressing room if carrick stays these boys obviously love him and playing under him. Carrick has done a good job, but his inexperience at times has shown which he will correct. A lack of leadership and spine which sheff utd had and when we got close to catching them we collapsed, I still worry carrick might go. If he doesn’t. We will do well very well.

He’s learning on the job and I think the big takeaways are you have to tweak your ideology in away games, we lost far too many AND you need a plan B doesn’t mean long ball, but maybe a CF that you can play a bit more direct too and turn the opposition

 

[BoroMart]

we've lacked that cynical edge to turn games in our favour when the football isn't working

To put it in terms of Carricks experiences, he needs to find his Roy Keane or Nicky Butt to counterbalance his passing game.

 

[BoroMart]

I'm not saying I want a Pulis hoofball team, but a dominant centre half, a Boating/Veira type to replace Howson and a cheap Gykores type who is more natural CF than Crooks to give us the option of actually winning, holding and retaining the ball can only help.

Exactly. We’ve got a soft underbelly and we need a spine to the team that gives us a bit more backbone.

 

[Simply red]

Massive job on .
Keeper
CH
LB
RB
CM
AM
RW
LW
CF x 2

 

[Thornaby90]

Can Coburn step up next season or even Hoppe?

 

[MVBoro]

Surprised at the number of comments on Akpom potentially being a one season wonder. I hope he signs a new contract and would think he would get us 20 goals next season. I would like Steffan back but this is likely to be tricky. Be interesting if we sign a new keeper or give Brynn a chance. Probably expect us to sign someone. I think Barlaser will become a regular next season, and Coburn will be our bench striker. Obviously we need to sign either one or two strikers, depending on what happens with Akpom and Archer. Don't think it is all doom and gloom but a bit of tinkering. I think the Carrick approach is generally the right way of going about it, and don't expect him to change his philosophy. Although uncertain, I expect us to be right up there again next season, hopefully challenging for the automatic promotion places.

 

[indeedido]

The point is that recruiting new better players will be expensive, and with the lack of FFP headroom Boro have, the smart way to do it is cash in on an asset.

You do talk nonsense.
Middlesbrough have absolutely no FFP concerns.
They have lost the amortisation and managed the wage bill.
They have also just got the FFP benefit of selling Spence and Tavernier.

The club perpetually lose money - and always will outside the PL - but that is nothing like saying they have FFP problems.

If Gibson chooses to then he undoubtedly could invest and undoubtedly has the FFP scope.

 

[Cosmonaut]

Where do we even begin…

Loan players Steffen Giles Archer and Ramsey going back, such key players and key positions require filling with a new GK and ST

Howson one season older, can’t go on forever

Chubba in his final year, Fry too if im not mistaken - do we cash in?

Going to be a totally different squad next season

Massive opportunity missed - Feel absolutely gutted

Around the time we could have caught Sheff Utd in 2nd, I thought wow, this is really on ... we must go up this season to prevent all the problems should we fail to go up become even bigger, as we face another year of championship football

Frankly, I am concnerned .. but other fans mostly seem optimistic to me that we are just going to roll on from where we have this season with the same players and bag 2 points on average a game and go up ... wtf??

I think we have been a little bit spoiled with the unexpectd flying form we experienced since Carrick arrived and become lost in the moment. Now reality has banged us in the face.

Steffen returning, I don't think he will .. I suppose we will find a replacement good enough, whoever that may be

Archer - absolutely no chace of hanging onto him ... he goes to either Villa and get a part or he will join one of the promoted 3 teams, or relegated sides

Chuba ... would like him to stay but I think the man will want to move on to the next challenge now and the club will happily take the money for Carrick's rebuild
That leaves us without our strikeforce more or less

Giles I can see staying, though he has a lot to improve on ... Ramsey I don' think will return either

I was absolutely guttted when I woke this morning, even though I always had Luton to win the play offs and that was before they overtook us in third.. But it still hurts like a motherfker...When was the last time a team who were top scorers, Golden Boot winner, fail to go up in this league?? Only Boro could do it that way

But mostly gutted beause another long slog of a season of Championshp football to come for us just seems exhausting to me, mentally considering how close we just come to going up. Also the fact I will never see the likes of Archer in a Boro shirt again hurts, I must say. Likely the same, for Akpom too.

Considering the overhaul we have coming up front and the massive improvement in quality we need defensively, Howson is not getting any younger. We certainly missed him in the play-offs as much as we did Ramsey


We have a huge overhaul to do and frankly, who are we going to be able to afford?? Wiht FFP etc I dunno how it will work , especially if we sell Fry too ...
to me he isn't part of Carricks plans and another side would gladly take him . As Warnock always says about us, signing players good enough is like pulling teeth when you're at Boro ...WIth Archer gone and probably Akpom, it is just going to make things more frustrating.


Fans who seem to think our average under Carrick would get us up to the 90 mark next season ... can guarantee it will not be that straight forward and next season is going to be a bit more complicated than that. I would be amazed if Chuba is still here come the close of the current window.

We had an opportunity to avoid all of the above, beat Ccoventry and Luton and get promoted but we absolutely bottled it. Last night was p1ss weak and I aren't sure what has happened to the side, but the past ten games or so, we have been gash. de-railed at the worst possible time.

Who's fault that is, fk knows. Good grief, Carrick has his work cut out this Summer.

 

[Ash88]

There's a few out of contract players I'd take a look at...

If we're unable to re-sign Ryan Giles - Jay Dasilva from Bristol, only 25, former England U21.

We probably have enough in CB if Matt Clarke comes back, but Jan Paul van Hecke from Brighton, still only 22, has partnered Lenihan before with Blackburn.

I like our RB options in Smith/Dijksteel, but Danny McNamara will be out of contract, played nearly every game for Millwall this season, and only 24.

Howson/Hackney/Barlaser will probably be our preferred three in CM, but losing Mowatt we probably need a squad player as backup, and we don't really have any youth players to fill the gaps...
Cameron Brannagan from Oxford would be looking to make the step up into the championship after playing over 200 games and scoring over 40 goals in league 1. Former Liverpool U21.

Forss/Jones are probably enough down the right, and I like McGree down the left, but as backup there's Neeskens Kebano on a free from Fulham.
A bit controversial because he's been injured since November, but if recovered I think he'll be a good addition. Knows the area and some of the team too.

Up front... Lucas Joao from Reading. I admit he's no Cameron Archer, but still only 29, free transfer, and there's some potential to score goals.
Daniel Jebbison from Sheffield Utd was a surprising one - He's only 19 and was a regular on the bench, playing some part in over 20 games this season.

 

[Funky_Chicken]

Around the time we could have caught Sheff Utd in 2nd, I thought wow, this is really on ... we must go up this season to prevent all the problems should we fail to go up become even bigger, as we face another year of championship football

Frankly, I am concnerned .. but other fans mostly seem optimistic to me that we are just going to roll on from where we have this season with the same players and bag 2 points on average a game and go up ... wtf??

I think we have been a little bit spoiled with the unexpectd flying form we experienced since Carrick arrived and become lost in the moment. Now reality has banged us in the face.

Steffen returning, I don't think he will .. I suppose we will find a replacement good enough, whoever that may be

Archer - absolutely no chace of hanging onto him ... he goes to either Villa and get a part or he will join one of the promoted 3 teams, or relegated sides

Chuba ... would like him to stay but I think the man will want to move on to the next challenge now and the club will happily take the money for Carrick's rebuild
That leaves us without our strikeforce more or less

Giles I can see staying, though he has a lot to improve on ... Ramsey I don' think will return either

I was absolutely guttted when I woke this morning, even though I always had Luton to win the play offs and that was before they overtook us in third.. But it still hurts like a motherfker...When was the last time a team who were top scorers, Golden Boot winner, fail to go up in this league?? Only Boro could do it that way

But mostly gutted beause another long slog of a season of Championshp football to come for us just seems exhausting to me, mentally considering how close we just come to going up. Also the fact I will never see the likes of Archer in a Boro shirt again hurts, I must say. Likely the same, for Akpom too.

Considering the overhaul we have coming up front and the massive improvement in quality we need defensively, Howson is not getting any younger. We certainly missed him in the play-offs as much as we did Ramsey


We have a huge overhaul to do and frankly, who are we going to be able to afford?? Wiht FFP etc I dunno how it will work , especially if we sell Fry too ...
to me he isn't part of Carricks plans and another side would gladly take him . As Warnock always says about us, signing players good enough is like pulling teeth when you're at Boro ...WIth Archer gone and probably Akpom, it is just going to make things more frustrating.


Fans who seem to think our average under Carrick would get us up to the 90 mark next season ... can guarantee it will not be that straight forward and next season is going to be a bit more complicated than that. I would be amazed if Chuba is still here come the close of the current window.

We had an opportunity to avoid all of the above, beat Ccoventry and Luton and get promoted but we absolutely bottled it. Last night was p1ss weak and I aren't sure what has happened to the side, but the past ten games or so, we have been gash. de-railed at the worst possible time.

Who's fault that is, fk knows. Good grief, Carrick has his work cut out this Summer.

There's a few out of contract players I'd take a look at...

If we're unable to re-sign Ryan Giles - Jay Dasilva from Bristol, only 25, former England U21.

We probably have enough in CB if Matt Clarke comes back, but Jan Paul van Hecke from Brighton, still only 22, has partnered Lenihan before with Blackburn.

I like our RB options in Smith/Dijksteel, but Danny McNamara will be out of contract, played nearly every game for Millwall this season, and only 24.

Howson/Hackney/Barlaser will probably be our preferred three in CM, but losing Mowatt we probably need a squad player as backup, and we don't really have any youth players to fill the gaps...
Cameron Brannagan from Oxford would be looking to make the step up into the championship after playing over 200 games and scoring over 40 goals in league 1. Former Liverpool U21.

Forss/Jones are probably enough down the right, and I like McGree down the left, but as backup there's Neeskens Kebano on a free from Fulham.
A bit controversial because he's been injured since November, but if recovered I think he'll be a good addition. Knows the area and some of the team too.

Up front... Lucas Joao from Reading. I admit he's no Cameron Archer, but still only 29, free transfer, and there's some potential to score goals.
Daniel Jebbison from Sheffield Utd was a surprising one - He's only 19 and was a regular on the bench, playing some part in over 20 games this season.

We certainly weren’t gash the last ten games. Luton fans said we were the best team to play at their ground and that was without Chuba Howson Ramsay and Forss. The team did suffer with the loss of key players though, and the last three games were effectively dead rubbers with us already securing fourth place. Of course there’s a rebuild job to do but that’s probably the case at every other club in the league. We’re in a good position, we have a bright up and coming manager, our recruitment team are coming up with the goods judging by the last two windows, and we have the core in place already of a team that can challenge. If we can make 5-6 good additions there’s no reason why we shouldn’t be right up there again next season

 

[newyddion]

My son crying at the play off final
Juninho crying at Leeds
Heskey’s equaliser in the FA Cup

Last night was disappointing.. looked at my youngest son and he just said “well, at least I’m not seven”