Positive test

[Alvez_48]

I have always been under the impression that a vast number of cases were asymptomatic. Not sure where I read that, but probably in multiple places.

I'll give you the benefit of doubt and believe you.. at which point what's the lockdown going to achieve?

2 asymptomatic super spreaders walk into a care home.

A Dr treating non covid patients (as if that even happens now) is an asymptomatic super spreader.. etc etc etc etc.

It completely derails your entire argument.

 

[Laughing]

I'll give you the benefit of doubt and believe you.. at which point what's the lockdown going to achieve?

2 asymptomatic super spreaders walk into a care home.

A Dr treating non covid patients (as if that even happens now) is an asymptomatic super spreader.. etc etc etc etc.

It completely derails your entire argument.

Not sure how it derails my argument Alvez. Are you saying - No point in locking down if people who are asymptomatic are allowed to spread the disease unchecked?

I assume that is what you mean. If that is the crux of what you are saying then I still don't see how it derails my argument. Firstly, you can only control what you can control. Secondly, we have had 6 months to ramp up testing and we didn't. With adequate testing it wouldn't matter if someone was asymptomatic, they would be tested, and ideally every couple of days if you work in a hospital or care home.

Nah Alvez, I don't get your point.

 

[Alvez_48]

Not sure how it derails my argument Alvez. Are you saying - No point in locking down if people who are asymptomatic are allowed to spread the disease unchecked?

I assume that is what you mean. If that is the crux of what you are saying then I still don't see how it derails my argument. Firstly, you can only control what you can control. Secondly, we have had 6 months to ramp up testing and we didn't. With adequate testing it wouldn't matter if someone was asymptomatic, they would be tested, and ideally every couple of days if you work in a hospital or care home.

Nah Alvez, I don't get your point.

You never do.. I notice you didn't come back to me last time I took your argument apart.. all you do is ramble on to something else. If you still can't get the point you never will you've become so entrenched in your view.
It's like you think I'm defending the government.
It's funny though because give it a few weeks you'll be back out and about like everyone else. Quietly upset that people are getting on with it.

 

[Laughing]

You never do.. I notice you didn't come back to me last time I took your argument apart.. all you do is ramble on to something else. If you still can't get the point you never will you've become so entrenched in your view.
It's like you think I'm defending the government.
It's funny though because give it a few weeks you'll be back out and about like everyone else. Quietly upset that people are getting on with it.

Took my argument apart? Really? If you think so.

I have no problem with you having a different viewpoint, I have a problem that if your view is enacted without weights and balances it can kill people.

I am entrenched in my view because there simply isn't enough evidence to support your view enough to abandon my view. If you and your supporting scientists are wrong we could end up with many more deaths with ending lockdown than continuing it.

My viewpoint is caution, your is let's go for it and damn the consequences, after all, there is no chance you will die, is there?

 

[Alvez_48]

Took my argument apart? Really? If you think so.

I have no problem with you having a different viewpoint, I have a problem that if your view is enacted without weights and balances it can kill people.

I am entrenched in my view because there simply isn't enough evidence to support your view enough to abandon my view. If you and your supporting scientists are wrong we could end up with many more deaths with ending lockdown than continuing it.

My viewpoint is caution, your is let's go for it and damn the consequences, after all, there is no chance you will die, is there?

No your viewpoint is lockdown saves lives mine is it is killing people.

Your viewpoint is you think your suggesting caution. My viewpoint is that it's anything but cautious to do something that's never been done before.

Your viewpoint is theres scientific consensus and you've not had evidence that it's wrong (despite believing a 'vast majority of people are asymptomatic'). Mine is there is absolutely no consensus and that Nobel prize winners are on my side of the argument.

 

[Laughing]

No your viewpoint is lockdown saves lives mine is it is killing people.

Your viewpoint is you think your suggesting caution. My viewpoint is that it's anything but cautious to do something that's never been done before.

Your viewpoint is theres scientific consensus and you've not had evidence that it's wrong (despite believing a 'vast majority of people are asymptomatic'). Mine is there is absolutely no consensus and that Nobel prize winners are on my side of the argument.

Again that is not my argument. In a previous post I stated that I wanted to see proof that the cure is worse than the disease. Right now we have lots of unexplained deaths, are they covid related or lockdown related? I don't know. I have stated this quite clearly, but you chose to ignore it.

I have not talked about scientific consensus, I talked about the scientific differences, and that is fine, if either course has the same level of risk. Right now we do not understand the risk of going back to a more normal lifestyle, but we have seen what happend during lockdown. Without an analysis of the excess deaths we do not understand how removing lockdown will play out. That is the bit that is missing.

Regardless of a scientists opinion, there is lots of evidence that a quick, brutal lockdown has worked so far.

You may be right Alvez, but at least try and understand what I am typing, it would save us both a lot of additional posts.

 

[Alvez_48]

Again that is not my argument. In a previous post I stated that I wanted to see proof that the cure is worse than the disease. Right now we have lots of unexplained deaths, are they covid related or lockdown related? I don't know. I have stated this quite clearly, but you chose to ignore it.

I have not talked about scientific consensus, I talked about the scientific differences, and that is fine, if either course has the same level of risk. Right now we do not understand the risk of going back to a more normal lifestyle, but we have seen what happend during lockdown. Without an analysis of the excess deaths we do not understand how removing lockdown will play out. That is the bit that is missing.

Regardless of a scientists opinion, there is lots of evidence that a quick, brutal lockdown has worked so far.

You may be right Alvez, but at least try and understand what I am typing, it would save us both a lot of additional posts.

Ok fair enough... But even with 'brutal lockdowns' our nearest neighbours Italy and Spain have had the same result.
It seems to be a smorgasbord of results which happens when.. you count deaths differently, you include care home deaths in some places not others, you just stop counting after a certain number (China).. etc etc
Which then brings us back to the original idea that lockdown is the experiment not the caution, can you understand that?
The economic impact is looking like it's going to be horrific.
Look at America right now... A horrific racist murder and it's injustice is causing mass rioting but the conditions for such an uprising have been put in place due to the previous months' economic damage. It's justified anger and rage boiling over into destruction.

 

[Redwurzel]

I can't see how sending people to care homes without them being tested and having a negative result was ever right.

No hospital was ever overrun by CV19 unless we are not being told. My local hospital has around 25% occupancy of the CV19 ward at the peak.

No one will ever take any responsibility.

 

[NYboro]

Ok fair enough... But even with 'brutal lockdowns' our nearest neighbours Italy and Spain have had the same result.
It seems to be a smorgasbord of results which happens when.. you count deaths differently, you include care home deaths in some places not others, you just stop counting after a certain number (China).. etc etc
Which then brings us back to the original idea that lockdown is the experiment not the caution, can you understand that?
The economic impact is looking like it's going to be horrific.
Look at America right now... A horrific racist murder and it's injustice is causing mass rioting but the conditions for such an uprising have been put in place due to the previous months' economic damage. It's justified anger and rage boiling over into destruction.

It has nothing at all to do with economic damage, far more to do with endemic racism and police brutality to minorities which is normally brushed under the carpet. In addition, the racist in the White House foments the racism.

 

[Alvez_48]

It has nothing at all to do with economic damage, far more to do with endemic racism and police brutality to minorities which is normally brushed under the carpet. In addition, the racist in the White House foments the racism.

It definitely has everything to do with all of that and the economic pain is even more fuel to the fire.

Trevor Noah did a great piece about it all

 

[Randy]

I can't see how sending people to care homes without them being tested and having a negative result was ever right.

No hospital was ever overrun by CV19 unless we are not being told. My local hospital has around 25% occupancy of the CV19 ward at the peak.

No one will ever take any responsibility.

Do hospitals look after non covid-19 patients now?

 

[NYboro]

Late night hosts usually do great pieces, but economics is really nothing in comparison to the real problem.

 

[NYboro]

Do hospitals look after non covid-19 patients now?

We're trying to get them back through the doors now, but many are reluctant, even if they need life-saving treatment.

 

[Zoophonic]

Sounds like you are blaming care workers for the spread of the virus in care homes? So on that basis are we blaming hospital staff for the spread in hospitals?

I’m absolutely not saying that. What I am saying is that the delay to the lockdown meant many more thousands catching the virus including asymptomatic care home staff who weren’t tested.