ForssAwakens
Well-known member
It’s funny because they claim it’s a democracy they should vote what represents them. You have to be kidding yourself if you think we live in a true democracy
PMQs
- Thread starter WeeGord
- Start date
gregorgregorovich
Well-known member
The vast majority of, as you call them "Corbynites" or as I call them, Socialists, will be voting Labour despite not because of who happens to be the Labour leader. They will probably have voted Labour at as many elections as I have and certainly at more than the so called switchers. However, I am under no illusions that by voting Labour at the next election that I will be helping the great socialist cause, but what I will be doing is trying to get shot of the bloody Tories. I just wish that from 2015 to 2019 the majority of the PLP could have shown the same loyalty and support. I remember seeing a TV documentary filmed just before and just after the 2017 General Election and Stephen Kinnock and other Labour MP's whose names I can't remember couldn't hide their surprise and sadly their dismay that Labour had exceeded expectations albeit in a losing cause. I hope I can persuade the likes of Superstu and Blind boy Grunt and others to vote Labour at the next election. I will certainly never stop trying because as I now end most of my posts with the same 2 words. I will now use a few more. We have to get these Tory B******s out.
gregorgregorovich
Well-known member
PS don't forget the food bank collection this Saturday.
MolteniArcore
Well-known member
F’ing well said sir
He's gone! Get over it! Or something like that.
MolteniArcore
Well-known member
Scrote
Well-known member
But weren't they the real enemy in 2019?
Why did we need to stick together pre-Corbyn and now stick together post-Corbyn but not when Corbyn was in charge and pushing some very sensible policies?
Again - the left have consistently stayed the course and sucked-up being led by Blair et al for a long time. Once a leftist takes charge any thought of solidarity goes out of the window until he's ousted and now we're all supposed to play happily again. The problem is we've seen the centrists for what the are now and there really is no going back to how it was before.
gregorgregorovich
Well-known member
Yes they were the enemy in 2019 and to me politically they will always be the enemy. I agree with you, the treatment of the leadership from 2015 to 2019 by the vast majority of the PLP was an absolute disgrace and most posters on this subject agree with you. But personally, I think I would be as hypocritical as they have been if I did the same now. Yes we've seen the "centrists" for what they are and it hasn't always been pretty. By the way, in my opinion they are not centrists, they are left of centre when you look at the whole political spectrum, maybe not very far left of centre, but left nonetheless. Not wishing to sound like Tony Mowbray, but we are where we are with regards to who is leader of the Labour Party and if we want shot of this bunch of incompetent, inept idiots we have to get behind whoever is best placed to beat them. Don't get me wrong, I hope come election time that I will be campaigning for some, even remotely Socialist policies but if not, I still know I will be supporting policies designed to be slightly fairer than those put forward by the bloody Tories. Get them out.
P.S. Don't forget about the food bank collection tomorrow.
WeeGord
Well-known member
You're arguing with the wrong person here, I was as huge a fan of Corbyn and the manifesto Labour had under his leadership as anyone else. I'm a socialist and would much rather the party stayed on the left, but two wrongs don't make a right. As disgusted as I was with how Jeremy Corbyn was treat by the media and some of the factions within his own party who seemed to undermine a genuine attempt at getting power I am now equally disgusted by some of those in the party who are undermining Keir Starmer and his attempts at getting Labour into a position of challenging for power.
Would I rather the party and front bench was more socialist, of course I would. Would I prefer to see the manifesto of 2017 kept largely in place then yes, without hesitation. However I am a pragmatist and would rather than a more centrist Labour party in power than a socialist Labour party in perpetual opposition. Those who undermine the party at every attempy are those who I have contempt for whether it was those undermining Corbyn or those currently undermining Starmer.
A united Labour party would win an election and it's the constant division and in fighting which keeps the Tories, our real enemies, in power and able to carry on their vile, corrupt business whilst s*itting all over 95% of the people in this country.
BlindBoyGrunt
Well-known member
Exactly this. For some there are only two dogs in this fight, those who will vote Tory, and those who wish for anything but Tory, ie. the lesser of two evils. But there are others who believe that late stage capitalism is destroying the world for all but the very few über privileged.
Left of centre how? So far as leader Starmer's argued against raising corporation tax, said the party are now against nationalising energy, whipped his MPs to abstain on an amendment stopping undercover police infiltrating trade unions, laughed along with Richard Madely about giving the left "a good kicking". His shadow chancellor declared herself more tory than the tories last time she was relevant. His levelling up minister went on telly to say she'd deal with Scottish nationalists how Madrid police deal with Catalans. I just don't see it.
Tories out
Different tories in
gregorgregorovich
Well-known member
I'm getting ready to go out, but just before I do, very quickly, how the pandemic has been handled would I believe would have been much better, with more emphasis on public health than opening up the economy. I do not believe the Good Friday agreement would be as likely to be burnt on the bonfire of brexit. Proposals to outlaw fire and rehire. I really have to go, I'm picking my brother in law up very shortly and by the way I don't disagree with you about what you've highlighted, it's an absolute disgrace and I know I could name other disgraceful positions or proposals, but nothing can be as bad as what we currently have. Still Tories out.
The_Unicorn
Well-known member
Perhaps we should leave it to the kids Young LabourLeft of centre how? So far as leader Starmer's argued against raising corporation tax, said the party are now against nationalising energy, whipped his MPs to abstain on an amendment stopping undercover police infiltrating trade unions, laughed along with Richard Madely about giving the left "a good kicking". His shadow chancellor declared herself more tory than the tories last time she was relevant. His levelling up minister went on telly to say she'd deal with Scottish nationalists how Madrid police deal with Catalans. I just don't see it.
Tories out
Different tories in
I think that's a good position for them to adopt. Along with what Unites doing with their funding hopefully it eventually leads to a better crop of Labour MPs.
ForssAwakens
Well-known member
Personally this whole corbyn wasn’t electable was just an excuse for the red wall to vote Tory and ‘get brexit done’
it was Labours position on brexit that did them. They had that much feedback on corbyn on the doorstep they had to change direction. I just don’t think Labour appeals to people anymore, but for many it’s the only real opportunity to get the tories out
If you truly believe Labour are tory lite (clearly they aren’t) surely tory lite is better than full on sleazy tory
surely a centre labour is better for us as a society. Society was better under Blair than it is now under the tories
it was Labours position on brexit that did them. They had that much feedback on corbyn on the doorstep they had to change direction. I just don’t think Labour appeals to people anymore, but for many it’s the only real opportunity to get the tories out
If you truly believe Labour are tory lite (clearly they aren’t) surely tory lite is better than full on sleazy tory
surely a centre labour is better for us as a society. Society was better under Blair than it is now under the tories
gregorgregorovich
Well-known member
I can fully understand Young Labour taking that stance. I was a senior FBU Official and we had an extremely bitter pay dispute that went on for over 3 years. The lies and utter b######t spun by the Labour government and regurgitated by the media was almost impossible to overcome, it certainly took a massive toll on our Reps, me included What did help to keep us going was the help and support from the public, other Unions and from a small group of Labour Mp's and Councillors. Without them, we would have had a"settlement imposed on the FBU", those were Prescott's words he didn't understand them then and probably still doesn't understand the absurdity of that sentence. One of the reasons I will still support Labour and try to persuade people to vote for them, is to repay that support. As a slight aside, the public must have thought we were like American Coppers, I've never eaten so many blooming donuts on a day time picket line and Pizza on a night time one, I think I probably put weight on while I was on strike.