ONS reporting deaths week ending 25th Sept

Borobuddah

Borobuddah

Well-known member
According to SKY news 215 deaths reported ‘mentioning coronavirus’

What does that mean? The criteria for reporting Covid seems to change weekly
 
The government (and tory/ far right news outlets) try and word it any way they can, so that it makes them look less $hit. It only works on the idiots, but the problem is we have a load of them.
 
There used to be some political analysis on data collection each time it changed, now nothing (that I have seen)
 
Borobuddah said:
According to SKY news 215 deaths reported ‘mentioning coronavirus’

What does that mean? The criteria for reporting Covid seems to change weekly
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The government stats were changed in the summer to correspond with other European countries. People who died with Covid 19 mentioned on the death certificate are included in the daily Covid figures. Clearly, with co-morbidities, many would have died anyway, they just had CV-19 on top. People who died in accidents, died of cancer, MND, strokes, heart attacks and all sorts of other ilnesses are all included, which makes the stats a bit arbitrary. The real total of people dying JUST of Covid-19 is probably a lot lower than the daily stats.
 
Soutra said:
The government stats were changed in the summer to correspond with other European countries. People who died with Covid 19 mentioned on the death certificate are included in the daily Covid figures. Clearly, with co-morbidities, many would have died anyway, they just had CV-19 on top. People who died in accidents, died of cancer, MND, strokes, heart attacks and all sorts of other ilnesses are all included, which makes the stats a bit arbitrary. The real total of people dying JUST of Covid-19 is probably a lot lower than the daily stats.
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Nope. Our excess deaths are 50% higher than our reported covid deaths (40k covid v 60k excess). If anything, we're under-reporting, massively.
  1. There's zero evidence that deaths have gone up from other main illnesses or causes of death (that have not been given further potency by covid).
  2. That extra 20k were not killed by painting the fence, sunbathing in the garden, or walking around a field.
  3. A massive lump of the population have been at much lesser risk than normal (other than covid), due to not travelling to work and not actually working etc.
  4. Being socially isolated from people, the flu and other transmissible illnesses will have reduced, so deaths should be down from those too, if anything.

    So, there's 60k extra deaths, yet people have been taking a lot less risks, so that number should be down, if anything. The covid deaths or covid influenced deaths could easily have eclipsed that 60k already, as there could be tons of covid influenced deaths which have replaced deaths from typical illnesses, accidents and the like. Those deaths would typically have had to reduce due to movements being down 50-70% during the main lockdown (when most of the deaths were), unless of course, there was a worldwide pandemic going on, killing tons of people and us being monumentally $hit at tracking the spread.
 
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I don't get either of the two points above, but to cover both buses and heart attacks.

Has there been 20,000 more people killed by buses or heart attacks? (and the same happened all over the world)
If so, how, and why? Peoples movements have been reduced by 50-70% for April to July, in the UK.
Do more people get ran over by buses when sat in their garden/ painting the fence?
Do more people have heart attacks when not going to work and having their mobility reduced?

I could say those 20,000 extra deaths have been caused by spontaneous human combustion, but it's not likely either.

I would say it's more likely that people being ran over by buses and people having heart attacks was less, and those numbers have been replaced by unaccounted covid deaths, seeing as there's a massive pandemic going on worldwide and we never had the capability to test who we needed to, loads died before they even got tested.

Yes, there might be 1 in 100 deaths or whatever wrongly attributed to covid, but what are the chances of someone getting covid, getting over it, and then dying of something else completely unrelated, within a few weeks or months? They're low, that's what they are. What are the chances of someone dying from covid outside of 28 days, or having covid play a major part in their death, but not the 100% total cause? Still low, but probably outnumbering the incorrect covid deaths 50:1. Covid still played a part in killing them, and they would be around if it wasn't for covid, that's the point.

The excess deaths figure is 60k, this is not made up. They have to have died of something, or a few things which have combined to end up in their early death.
 
Statto, whilst I agree that covid deaths are probably under-reported, a lot of excess deaths were because the health service had to shut down and elective treatments were cancelled. We do know that Suicides are up, on average, which is likely due to lockdown having a negative impact on people who were borderline suicidal, and lockdown pushed them over the edge. Cancer treatments were cancelled also, probably leading to a spike in cancer related deaths. People were not attending the GP when they were suffering from undiagnosed heart attacks. There is quite a list. Does it add up to 20,000? I don't know but I think it is unlikely and we will not know those figures until next year.
 
It's as if you're completely ignoring the shutdown of our health services @Statto1 .. oh wait.. you are.

Look at the excess deaths of people dying at home, it's eye opening. You won't of course.

The reality is fear and lack of access are causing at least as many deaths as people 'with' covid.
 
Soutra said:
The government stats were changed in the summer to correspond with other European countries. People who died with Covid 19 mentioned on the death certificate are included in the daily Covid figures. Clearly, with co-morbidities, many would have died anyway, they just had CV-19 on top. People who died in accidents, died of cancer, MND, strokes, heart attacks and all sorts of other ilnesses are all included, which makes the stats a bit arbitrary. The real total of people dying JUST of Covid-19 is probably a lot lower than the daily stats.
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A person dying of a car accident or any of your other examples wouldn't be included. The ONS figures are based on death certificates, as agreed by the registrar and the next of kin.

A co-morbidity may include the person having had some form of mental health illness at some time in their life or autism or . . . . 50% of comorbidities are listed as 'other'.
 
Alvez_48 said:
It's as if you're completely ignoring the shutdown of our health services @Statto1 .. oh wait.. you are.

Look at the excess deaths of people dying at home, it's eye opening. You won't of course.

The reality is fear and lack of access are causing at least as many deaths as people 'with' covid.
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Your comment Alvez, that fear or lack of access is causing as many deaths as covid. Is this an opinion or do you have some numbers to back that up? my understanding was that we would not know the cause of deaths overall until early next year.
 
Alvez_48 said:
It's as if you're completely ignoring the shutdown of our health services @Statto1 .. oh wait.. you are.

Look at the excess deaths of people dying at home, it's eye opening. You won't of course.

The reality is fear and lack of access are causing at least as many deaths as people 'with' covid.
Click to expand...

I kind of see where the logic comes in this. But why did the excess deaths drop during lockdown and revert to less than average? None of the NHS services had restarted at this point, in fact most services were in the same position, which would in theory lead to more excess deaths the longer it went on surely?
 
Cambsred said:
I kind of see where the logic comes in this. But why did the excess deaths drop during lockdown and revert to less than average? None of the NHS services had restarted at this point, in fact most services were in the same position, which would in theory lead to more excess deaths the longer it went on surely?
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At some stage there will be a serious effect of this but not necessarily short term. Let's hope the NHS had prepared to manage things differently this time round to minimise the indirect second wave deaths.

There has been no interim flu report this year. It'll be interesting to see how the ONS assesses flu deaths through this.
 
According to ONS data - total deaths per week since mid may have been in line with 5 year average.
The data runs til 25th Sept with those last 4 weeks also in line with the 5 year average.
That measure (excess deaths v 5 year average) was the one widely used during the early days.

The interesting bit is the virus has been spreading for fun since Feb with no uptick in excess deaths in June, July, Aug and Sept
 
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Cambsred said:
I kind of see where the logic comes in this. But why did the excess deaths drop during lockdown and revert to less than average? None of the NHS services had restarted at this point, in fact most services were in the same position, which would in theory lead to more excess deaths the longer it went on surely?
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My theory and remembering I'm just a amateur hour observer would be that the excess deaths would be a further say 500 a week during those summer months if the NHS (and people used it without fear) was operating normally.
 
Laughing said:
Your comment Alvez, that fear or lack of access is causing as many deaths as covid. Is this an opinion or do you have some numbers to back that up? my understanding was that we would not know the cause of deaths overall until early next year.
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I've read bits an pieces but nothing concrete, like most things these days my friend.

If you look at the cancer deaths per week 'normally' and then the missed screenings and care already observed some research has suggested around 12k (I believe, might be wrong) more than normal haved passed already on that front.
 
Alvez_48 said:
I've read bits an pieces but nothing concrete, like most things these days my friend.

If you look at the cancer deaths per week 'normally' and then the missed screenings and care already observed some research has suggested around 12k (I believe, might be wrong) more than normal haved passed already on that front.
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I don't doubt that some excess deaths are due to a health service that was essentially covid only for a while. I looked at number during the lockdown and I couldn't find anything to confirm what the scale of the issue actually was. Bear told me at the time those figures will be available early next year.

I personally believe that it doesn't really matter whether the excess deaths are covid or because the health service couldn't cope, the blame lies in one direction only, a government that has pared back essential services for a decade. Of course it matters when you want to analyze and plan for future spikes, but in terms of who we should be angry with, not so difficult.
 
Alvez_48 said:
It's as if you're completely ignoring the shutdown of our health services @Statto1 .. oh wait.. you are.

Look at the excess deaths of people dying at home, it's eye opening. You won't of course.

The reality is fear and lack of access are causing at least as many deaths as people 'with' covid.
Click to expand...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ts-need-traced.html?__twitter_impression=true

One wonders if the ONS will be tracking cancer deaths weekly next year?

Seriously struggling to understand how nobody has battered this evil cretin yet?
 
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