Oh dear Boris

Cooper671 said:
Bit confused by this thread, though i didnt see the speech i have seen just Jonathan Ashworth saying Labour support the measures brought in today.

Surely both political parties agreeing on the measures as a country is what we want to see? As opposed to the usual you do it like that, we’d have done this approach of party politics.

I’m not too fussed on someones public speaking. I dont think it says too much in general but if both parties are happy with the measures, whats the issue with whats been announced?
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He never mentioned testing and how important it is to defeating the virus. Why would he because it implicates his leadership
He’s just a chancer and a plain village idiot
 
Cooper671 said:
I don’t believe the opposition should always oppose. You shouldn’t oppose or offer an alternative for the sake of it. Its alot more refreshing if they just say “yeah we agree” from both sides.
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What Labour are doing now is actually just for the sake of it. “Why didn’t you do this earlier” ”why didn’t you test more” is not opposition to the policies, and does not provide real alternative to say, why lock down, what effect does draconian policy have on the virus.

Nevertheless this has been a consistent problem - through Brexit and even going back to the Iraq war. An opposition party that seriously wishes to represent an alternative has to actually oppose the government’s core and divisive policy. Not just say, oh we’d do it too, but better.
 
I have maintained from Day One that this should have been a cross party issue and that party politics should have no role in something as serious as trying to avert a pandemic, Labour and other parties, I think, are broadly backing the government as they don’t see the benefit of muddying the waters by offering an alternative that others may follow, MP’s have been critical and tried to hold the Prime Minister and his Cabinet to task at the execution of their plans without being critical of the measures taking place, it’s a balancing act.

There are plenty of MP’s of all rosettes who are unhappy with the performance of Johnson as Prime Minister but because of the current situation, can’t go fully on the attack as it would be seen as the wrong time, it’s not an accident that Johnson has extended measures so far into the future, as in a way it gives him job security and focuses scrutiny onto Covid and lockdown measures rather than himself.
 
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Millions of people heard him say something like
’we have succeeded in the first wave of coronovirus’

Job done
 
Johnson is incompetent and the Cummings trip to Barnard Castle was a fiasco.

We are, however in the middle of a pandemic, so rather than emulating he people you loathe by not following the rules, do the right thing, rise above them and stay safe and stop the virus spreading and putting vulnerable people at risk. Educate your kids to do the same thing.

There is far too much whataboutary around at the moment and resentment towards the restrictions, people need to stop trying to find ways around the rules and show a bit of public spirit, it won’t just benefit others, it will also benefit yourself and your loved ones. Lets hope these new measures work, if not they will be extended and most people (except a minority of hard line left and right wingers) accept and understand this.
 
American_Mary said:
There are plenty of MP’s of all rosettes who are unhappy with the performance of Johnson as Prime Minister but because of the current situation, can’t go fully on the attack as it would be seen as the wrong time, it’s not an accident that Johnson is extended measures so far into the future, as in a way it gives him job security and focuses scrutiny onto Covid and lockdown measures rather than himself.
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Precisely. So it is no longer in fact a public health issue. It is an issue of power being exploited - therefore nobody should take these extended measures seriously. SAGE, Whitty and Vallance are simply Johnson's hand-picked tools in all of this.

If the advice is not given for public health reasons only, then the public have the right to consider the advice and act accordingly. The British populace are not children, nor should they be treated as such.
 
Colin Warnek said:
Precisely. So it is no longer in fact a public health issue. It is an issue of power being exploited - therefore nobody should take these extended measures seriously. SAGE, Whitty and Vallance are simply Johnson's hand-picked tools in all of this.

If the advice is not given for public health reasons only, then the public have the right to consider the advice and act accordingly. The British populace are not children, nor should they be treated as such.
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Yet some are acting like spoilt children Who can’t get their own way.
 
WeeGord said:
For once I agree with you. Generally speaking it’s called consensus politics and some may we’ll argue that’s where we were in the mid 90s for a period.

Both parties reasonably closely aligned in the centre, just arguing over who can do things better.

To state that because 2 parties agree on something means we live in a totalitarian state is quite something.
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Not when one party is making a complete mess of it whilst simultaneously handing out multi million pound contracts to their friends who are not even qualified to deliver. Consensus politics is OK when things are going well but we are not in that position.
 
Boris is just like one of the wackier ‘characters’ on here, except he’s in power. I say power not government because that would infer some consultation with Parliament, which he’s stopped troubling himself with.
 
Colin Warnek said:
What Labour are doing now is actually just for the sake of it. “Why didn’t you do this earlier” ”why didn’t you test more” is not opposition to the policies, and does not provide real alternative to say, why lock down, what effect does draconian policy have on the virus.

Nevertheless this has been a consistent problem - through Brexit and even going back to the Iraq war. An opposition party that seriously wishes to represent an alternative has to actually oppose the government’s core and divisive policy. Not just say, oh we’d do it too, but better.
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I dont always agree with you colin, but you are spot on.
The "opposition" are "playing" the opposition game.
No substance, just words.
No calling on the public to demand action and real change in the shambolic way this pandemic is being "managed" (!!!?).
Fine speeches which no reasonable person could arguably disagree with, is media speak and marketing.
Irregardless of personal politics, the opposition is settling in having cosied up to the political establishment.
We have an "opposition" akin to the Blair / Wilson / Brown / Callaghan / Kinnock mould - none of them posed a real opposition - they all accepted and perpetuated cuts in public services, attacks on workers living standards and an acceptance that preserving the staus quo took precedence above all else.
 
r00fie1 said:
I dont always agree with you colin, but you are spot on.
The "opposition" are "playing" the opposition game.
No substance, just words.
No calling on the public to demand action and real change in the shambolic way this pandemic is being "managed" (!!!?).
Fine speeches which no reasonable person could arguably disagree with, is media speak and marketing.
Irregardless of personal politics, the opposition is settling in having cosied up to the political establishment.
We have an "opposition" akin to the Blair / Wilson / Brown / Callaghan / Kinnock mould - none of them posed a real opposition - they all accepted and perpetuated cuts in public services, attacks on workers living standards and an acceptance that preserving the staus quo took precedence above all else.
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What sort of action in the middle of a pandemic would you suggest the opposition demand?

With out that detail, your post has no substance, just words 🙄
 
Chris_Boro said:
What sort of action in the middle of a pandemic would you suggest the opposition demand?

With out that detail, your post has no substance, just words 🙄
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Action such as demanding PPE in Care Homes and pressure to provide free tests every week for staff.
MP`s in "opposition" continually raise those demands in the media and in l;ocal communities.
Labour and the Co-operative Party in co-ordinated liasison with the TUC need to rank up pressure and demand accountability from the Government: make the situation untenable for the Prime Minister and his Cabinet.
Thaty is what "democracy" is about.
Firing up local people is the role of leaders - leadership by example from the front.

"Opposition" isnt effective by confining itself to fine words on a zoom "virtual" conference or in the safety of the Palace of Westminster.
If you have ever engaged in local community politics you will know how successful local people and organised campaigns can be - the national media dont advertise.
 
r00fie1 said:
Action such as demanding PPE in Care Homes and pressure to provide free tests every week for staff.
MP`s in "opposition" continually raise those demands in the media and in l;ocal communities.
Labour and the Co-operative Party in co-ordinated liasison with the TUC need to rank up pressure and demand accountability from the Government: make the situation untenable for the Prime Minister and his Cabinet.
Thaty is what "democracy" is about.
Firing up local people is the role of leaders - leadership by example from the front.

"Opposition" isnt effective by confining itself to fine words on a zoom "virtual" conference or in the safety of the Palace of Westminster.
If you have ever engaged in local community politics you will know how successful local people and organised campaigns can be - the national media dont advertise.
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Do labour have the resources 4 years away from an election to launch such a grass roots campaign, again during a pandemic? Even if they did, would it even be effective right now without media coverage?

I get your point, but the reality is that this government just doesn't care, and will bat all that off as the "militant left" which the media will lap up.

Detail is what will undo this government, but with a majority if 80 it will take time and a full public enquiry, that unfortunately won't happen during this term.

Labour are playing for the next election, as realistically it all they can do. Unless Brexit causes an implosion within the Tories.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
Not when one party is making a complete mess of it whilst simultaneously handing out multi million pound contracts to their friends who are not even qualified to deliver. Consensus politics is OK when things are going well but we are not in that position.
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My point was really directed towards the poster that suggested that by not being opposition for the sake of it that we are under some sort of totalitarian regime. I was clarifying that isn't true in the slightest and wasn't meant to reflect directly on the current political situation in this country.
 
Chris_Boro said:
Do labour have the resources 4 years away from an election to launch such a grass roots campaign, again during a pandemic? Even if they did, would it even be effective right now without media coverage?

I get your point, but the reality is that this government just doesn't care, and will bat all that off as the "militant left" which the media will lap up.

Detail is what will undo this government, but with a majority if 80 it will take time and a full public enquiry, that unfortunately won't happen during this term.

Labour are playing for the next election, as realistically it all they can do. Unless Brexit causes an implosion within the Tories.
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Believe me Chris.
The Labour Party has the funds to mount a campaign.
I doubt they have the political will or leadership.
You are right about "playing for the next election"(y)
Unfortunately for many of us four years is too little too late.
 
FabioPorkpie said:
He’s a complete charlatan. A chancer.
I wish the Tories would just get shot and put somebody competent in place. Much as I dislike them, there just has to be better options in the Tory party to lead the country through this, rather than this work shy buffoon.
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Rebellion happening next week in the party. The seeds have been planted this week.

I've got the beers in at home in preparation.
 
There is absolutely nothing that Labour can do that will affect the government response on this or any other policy.

They can’t press the point that the Government are making a mess of this too much, because of the confusion it would cause.

I am sure that behind the scenes dialogue is taking place but how much Boris and his cronies listen, who knows?

We have a prime minister who says he is being guided by the science, which is the correct approach, they are the experts in this. But then ignores the science, time and time again. He is not a man of intellect, he is not a man of details. He’s a buffoon, a throwback, a raconteur, he has no place in politics.

Just look at track and trace, why couldn’t we take an off the shelf system that has been proven to work? Because doing that would cut out a profit line for Tory backers. Why is the testing a mess? Let’s look who is running it - Serco, as shady a company as there is.

This country has regressed over the last decade, that cannot be debated, only one party has been in power, they have had the backing of the media, a mostly majority in government and played the trump card of switching their core belief to appease an increasingly nationalised electorate when they were failing in just about every other area of government.

Don’t blame Labour, blame those who were too lazy to look behind the ideal of Brexit and voted this shower in.
 
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