No cuddling, no board games, no sitting opposite each other for dinner...

Or instead they could not pander to those that feel they 'need' Christmas and not mandate for people to be in a situation where the things you mention are likely to occur. Instead they could grow some balls and mandate that Christmas is effectively cancelled this year in a sustained effort to get out of this situation as soon as possible.

I'd rather not have Christmas this year in the hope that it means we have our elderly or vulnerable family actually around to be able to have Christmas next year and for years after that. This 5 day break creates a risk that is simply not IMO worth the reward
 
Or instead they could not pander to those that feel they 'need' Christmas and not mandate for people to be in a situation where the things you mention are likely to occur. Instead they could grow some balls and mandate that Christmas is effectively cancelled this year in a sustained effort to get out of this situation as soon as possible.

I'd rather not have Christmas this year in the hope that it means we have our elderly or vulnerable family actually around to be able to have Christmas next year and for years after that. This 5 day break creates a risk that is simply not IMO worth the reward

We all know that the elderly and vulnerable are almost most likely to die.. Its called old age.

So who's to say they would be around to see next Christmas anyway.

Some would argue that denying them contact with the family and grandchildren etc. is not fair in what could be the final moments of their life regardless of Covid.
 
We all know that the elderly and vulnerable are almost most likely to die.. Its called old age.

So who's to say they would be around to see next Christmas anyway.

Some would argue that denying them contact with the family and grandchildren etc. is not fair in what could be the final moments of their life regardless of Covid.
So what are you saying, might as well put the final nail in the coffin now????
 
So what are you saying, might as well put the final nail in the coffin now????

I don't believe that's what I said.

You clearly like to add your own spin.

But any families elderly folk could die at any point from anything and it's as simple as that. Yes, it's emotive but it's factual.

I lost a grandparent this year, not from Covid, and that was not expected.
 
I don't believe that's what I said.

You clearly like to add your own spin.

But any families elderly folk could die at any point from anything and it's as simple as that. Yes, it's emotive but it's factual.

I lost a grandparent this year, not from Covid, and that was not expected.
But is that really a reason to take such a massive gamble at this critical time, come the spring, they maybe vaccinated and free to see who they want, just a little bit of patience require.
 
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Or instead they could not pander to those that feel they 'need' Christmas and not mandate for people to be in a situation where the things you mention are likely to occur. Instead they could grow some balls and mandate that Christmas is effectively cancelled this year in a sustained effort to get out of this situation as soon as possible.

I'd rather not have Christmas this year in the hope that it means we have our elderly or vulnerable family actually around to be able to have Christmas next year and for years after that. This 5 day break creates a risk that is simply not IMO worth the reward
Totally agree Artie, finally someone with common sense 😉.
 
I don't believe that's what I said.

You clearly like to add your own spin.

But any families elderly folk could die at any point from anything and it's as simple as that. Yes, it's emotive but it's factual.

I lost a grandparent this year, not from Covid, and that was not expected.
It really sort of is what you're saying Chris. I don't understand how we've gone from protecting the old and vulnerable to saying f**k em, they're going to die soon anyway so its up to them to look after themselves
 
Chris - I think you should think about what you just said there, please. You have come across as very callous. That may not be your intention.
 
I just saw that although fans can go to games they cannot cheer!

What with that and the banning of monopoly seems like there will be no fun to be had for sometime yet!

However I support all measures as I just want everyone to come out of this the other side as unscathed as possible!
 
We all know that the elderly and vulnerable are almost most likely to die.. Its called old age.

So who's to say they would be around to see next Christmas anyway.

Some would argue that denying them contact with the family and grandchildren etc. is not fair in what could be the final moments of their life regardless of Covid.

Well don’t you think that is the elderly persons choice to make and not yours, mine, or anyone else’s? I think Whitty is right to say what he said, it will make SOME think again. None of us know for sure we will be around the Christmas after next, but it is not up to you, me or anyone to tip the scales against anyones chances, it is not just the wider family, it is then the others you accidentally come into contact with unknowingly or unwittingly in the days that follow too.

Your post makes it sound like you have a selfish streak unfortunately, I hope that is not the case.

You want to enjoy your Christmas, probably wont be anywhere near the queue for the vaccine anytime soon and appear to care more about your immediate household than others, like many do up and down the nation. I am not suggesting that is not acceptable, it is a choice and I understand why people make that choice. When I was younger and less worldly wise I would have maybe done the same.

Thankfully I am a little wiser now though and the best gift I can give anyone this Christmas is the gift of respect, social distancing and the thought that we can have a good old knees up in around 6 months to celebrate the muted Christmas about to come by.
 
No, my intention is to highlight that people should be free to make decisions on what they want to do.

They can't say well you can do this and this and this and then in the next breath say but well you can't do this, this and this thereby nullifying the point of bringing family together at Christmas.

None of us know when our last day will be.

I have barely seen or spoken to a soul outside of work since March. I have followed rules that made little to no sense. I lost a grandparent that I was not able to see. I have another that has been diagnosed with dementia that I have barely been able to see.

Do people really think it's fair that we are just saying sorry old people you'll just have to spend another 6 months sat on your own. Do we really believe that that is beneficial for their health and general wellbeing?

I certainly don't. If they wish to make the decision to take the risk then that is their call. I'm certainly not suggesting that everyone has to go and drag their elderly family out to party but there is always a bigger picture.
 
What Chris said is actually perfectly fair.

Old folk do die all the time, and unexpectedly sometimes.

There is absolutely no guarantee that if you skip Christmas this year to 'save' an elderly relative, that they'll be around next year.

Thank you.
 
What Chris said is actually perfectly fair.

Old folk do die all the time, and unexpectedly sometimes.

There is absolutely no guarantee that if you skip Christmas this year to 'save' an elderly relative, that they'll be around next year.
Perhaps they won't, but I'd rather maximise the opportunity of older folk being around next year as opposed to potentially minimising it
 
Unfortunately the government have to dumb down their message so that everyone gets the message.
The more intelligent are able to make their own decision for their families best interest, however as has been seen numerous times there are people out there who either do not understand or do not care about the results of their actions.
The intelligent get upset about being treated as children, the less intelligent continue to do what they want. The end result is that we all continue to suffer.
 
Unfortunately the government have to dumb down their message so that everyone gets the message.
The more intelligent are able to make their own decision for their families best interest, however as has been seen numerous times there are people out there who either do not understand or do not care about the results of their actions.
The intelligent get upset about being treated as children, the less intelligent continue to do what they want. The end result is that we all continue to suffer.
Difficult to disagree with any of that
 
Do people really think it's fair that we are just saying sorry old people you'll just have to spend another 6 months sat on your own. Do we really believe that that is beneficial for their health and general wellbeing?

I certainly don't. If they wish to make the decision to take the risk then that is their call. I'm certainly not suggesting that everyone has to go and drag their elderly family out to party but there is always a bigger picture.
No, thats not fair and nor is it what anyone is saying. What I'm saying is forgo Christmas this year so that it doesn't promote another wave of infection and the subsequent further lockdown. Do whatever we can, including no normal Christmas this year, so that we can regain some normality sooner and nobody has to spend a further 6 months on their own. That will be better for everyone's health and well-being

Relaxing rules enables longevity of the anguish, we have to go hard and now for a sustained period to kill the virus, thats the only way to get out of this mess and it will be quicker in the long run than allowing 5 days at Christmas followed by further sanctions until who knows when
 
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