MY TAKE ON IT

It comes around on here quite regularly, what is working class, what is middle class. I don’t accept that if you work you’re working class, I‘m sure the governor of the Bank of England works hard, I’m pretty sure he’s not working class.

As a life long Labour Party member and supporter I’m struggling to see what we stand for and how we appeal to the people who should be voting for us. It’s easy to see everything that’s wrong with the Tories right now. But that’s not enough, it’s like going into a football match knowing the opposition have a dodgy keeper, but if you don’t have a decent formation and striker of your own you’ll never win.

Im not sure what the answer is, but we need to appeal to Ingleby Berwick Person, they are the type of people we lost. I suspect strong policies on education, healthcare, crime, pensions are the old staples that will still appeal if pitched properly. But they’re also aspirational people and we’ve got to somehow appeal to their desires for house ownership, share holdings and foreign holidays etc while separating ourselves from the Tories and maintaining our fundamental principles. We’ve a long way to go.
 
For me the conservatives are now the English national party and with a Scottish national party there is no place for the moderates, be it a little left or a little right
I think that’s an excellent point and an important one in understanding how traditional Labour areas are now voting.
 
No one wants to class themselves as working class these days in my opinion, they all want the next flashiest phone, the new shiniest car, and they all want to post about it on Facebook or Instagram.

Associating yourself as working class is not seen attractive these days.
That’s not a new phenomenon. This was identified in voting patterns in the 1970s.
 
"hadn't seen any benefit from 60 years of Labour MPs"
In the last 60 years the tories have been in power fora majority of the time.

"Keep paring down the electorate until you are left with only people who vote Labour?"
Or keep moving the constituancy boundaries to favour the tories?

The people of Hartlepool have obviously seen the massive benefits of 11 years of Tory government.

But this is the trick central government play. They cut public services to the bone by reducing funding to local authorities. Then they tell the councils they can charge higher council tax if they like to fund the gaps.

From there it's a dead cert that the people blame the local council whilst the torys use some of the savings to bolster their tory authorities.
 
Interesting opening post from a former pit villager.

If these areas now align themselves, for whatever reason, with the Tories then I don’t think Labour should waste time pursuing votes from lost areas which have changed due to deindustrialisation.

I think it’s time for Labour to look at where their core vote is these days and if that is the under 50’s, the cities, the minorities, the greens then be proud of it and harvest that vote.

There are millions to go at in those categories in every part of the U.K., get that vote mobilised with a forward looking, young and fresh image.

Build everything around the health and well-being of the general population.

Push on open doors rather than trying to live in the past. Portray the Tories as the party of the past (which they are).

Time for change.
 
I think that’s an excellent point and an important one in understanding how traditional Labour areas are now voting.
I think there's a definitely UKIP element to the current government, the Brexit sentiment is as strong as ever and many popple see Labour as weak and uninspiring.

The key problem for Labour is that they can't adopt the Brexit feeling in their policies and for a great many that's all their vote is about.
 
Interesting opening post from a former pit villager.

If these areas now align themselves, for whatever reason, with the Tories then I don’t think Labour should waste time pursuing votes from lost areas which have changed due to deindustrialisation.

I think it’s time for Labour to look at where their core vote is these days and if that is the under 50’s, the cities, the minorities, the greens then be proud of it and harvest that vote.

There are millions to go at in those categories in every part of the U.K., get that vote mobilised with a forward looking, young and fresh image.

Build everything around the health and well-being of the general population.

Push on open doors rather than trying to live in the past. Portray the Tories as the party of the past (which they are).

Time for change.
Good post. I don't neccessarily agree with some of it, but at least there is a clear direction. For me, Labours policies should be focused on these "no hope" areas where there was once a thriving community - former pit villages etc(there are plenty down here in West/South Yorks. These places would have been Labour strongholds back in the day but over the years, have been left to rot. For me, Labour needs to offer something to the people that live in these areas.
 
Elaborate
Well, you have a choice about where you live and what job you have. What is a career anyway it's full of empty promises, working 9-5 just to pay off a massive mortgage if you live in the South. Move back to Middesbrough....there are jobs up here, contrary to popular belief on here.Slash your mortgage and live a life with less financial pressure, less traffic and a Boro season ticket ⚽👍
 
Well, you have a choice about where you live and what job you have. What is a career anyway it's full of empty promises, working 9-5 just to pay off a massive mortgage if you live in the South. Move back to Middesbrough....there are jobs up here, contrary to popular belief on here.Slash your mortgage and live a life with less financial pressure, less traffic and a Boro season ticket ⚽👍

You must have missed the family part I wrote. People rely on us and we can't up sticks.

And my partner has a career down here too, she's a Londoner and her work is London based and she's put a great deal of effort into it. Why would I ask her to leave the life we've built here?

My job is also quite fulfilling, I've worked v hard to get where I am in it and there's limited equivalent positions in the NE, all of which are taken.

I'm also not Jeremy Clarkson, so I don't care about traffic.

The world isn't as simple as you make it out to be.
 
Good post. I don't neccessarily agree with some of it, but at least there is a clear direction. For me, Labours policies should be focused on these "no hope" areas where there was once a thriving community - former pit villages etc(there are plenty down here in West/South Yorks. These places would have been Labour strongholds back in the day but over the years, have been left to rot. For me, Labour needs to offer something to the people that live in these areas.
I don‘t like this ‘red wall’ term, the Tories and media are using it to undermine Labour.

The election is won across the country in all areas not just in the so called red wall areas.

By trying to get Labour to focus only on these communities it’s keeping their thinking narrow and hemmed into old traditional heartlands, and it’s not working anyway, Labour just get blamed when they are not in power.
 
You must have missed the family part I wrote. People rely on us and we can't up sticks.

And my partner has a career down here too, she's a Londoner and her work is London based and she's put a great deal of effort into it. Why would I ask her to leave the life we've built here?

My job is also quite fulfilling, I've worked v hard to get where I am in it and there's limited equivalent positions in the NE, all of which are taken.

I'm also not Jeremy Clarkson, so I don't care about traffic.

The world isn't as simple as you make it out to be.
Fair enough pal but you were moaning about your lot. Students loans, big mortgage, working well into your 60's as if you don't have any choice in the matter. I'm just trying to point out that you do, you're choosing to live that life...I'm not try to be clever btw 👍
 
I don‘t like this ‘red wall’ term, the Tories and media are using it to undermine Labour.

The election is won across the country in all areas not just in the so called red wall areas.

By trying to get Labour to focus only on these communities it’s keeping their thinking narrow and hemmed into old traditional heartlands, and it’s not working anyway, Labour just get blamed when they are not in power.
I think that there is a perception in former Labour strongholds is that Labour doesn't represent them, that they have been pushed aside in favour of middle class Islington types and divisive Identity politics and given up on the old fashioned idea of class politics (whatever colour or creed)
 
I think there's a definitely UKIP element to the current government, the Brexit sentiment is as strong as ever and many popple see Labour as weak and uninspiring.

The key problem for Labour is that they can't adopt the Brexit feeling in their policies and for a great many that's all their vote is about.
They can’t adapt it because the majority of Labour members supported remaining in the EU.
 
They can’t adapt it because the majority of Labour members supported remaining in the EU.
Exactly and given the broad drivers behind the Brixiteers, nor should they and there lies their problem.

Starmer says they've lost the trust of the people, but this is what he really means but can't say it.
 
Fair enough pal but you were moaning about your lot. Students loans, big mortgage, working well into your 60's as if you don't have any choice in the matter. I'm just trying to point out that you do, you're choosing to live that life...I'm not try to be clever btw 👍
I was outlining the situation facing hundreds of thousands of people like me.

I can't get rid of the loans, I have to have the mortgage and I have to work into my 60s as that is literally how the pension scheme and the state pension are organised. These are challenges that people of the elder generation never had to contend with and yet the response, rather than understanding is this pithy nonsense.

I guess I'll leave my partner to care for family alone, take my half of the mortgage - meaning so she can no longer afford to stay local and help out. Then I'm free to start a new career in the NE in one of these I'll defined jobs you've mentioned.

Explain to me how without a time machine I can get rid of the student loans, get a better mortgage and get onto a defined benefit pension scheme. How I can choose to live my life a different way?
 
Fair enough pal but you were moaning about your lot. Students loans, big mortgage, working well into your 60's as if you don't have any choice in the matter. I'm just trying to point out that you do, you're choosing to live that life...I'm not try to be clever btw 👍
Give it a rest Nobby. The lad has explained his personal circumstances and why he can't follow the path you think would be so simple for him to take.
 
I think that there is a perception in former Labour strongholds is that Labour doesn't represent them, that they have been pushed aside in favour of middle class Islington types and divisive Identity politics and given up on the old fashioned idea of class politics (whatever colour or creed)
But not amongst all Labour voters, otherwise they wouldn’t have won any seats anywhere.

My point is that you need general nationwide appeal to a receptive audience rather than just worrying about a few particular people in a few particular seats.

There could be all sorts of reasons they don’t want to vote Labour any more.

Corbyn pursued class politics and his appeal declined markedly 2017 to 2019 although I acknowledge there were other factors.
 
But not amongst all Labour voters, otherwise they wouldn’t have won any seats anywhere.

My point is that you need general nationwide appeal to a receptive audience rather than just worrying about a few particular people in a few particular seats.

There could be all sorts of reasons they don’t want to vote Labour any more.

Corbyn pursued class politics and his appeal declined markedly 2017 to 2019 although I acknowledge there were other factors.
Yet his appeal was greater in 2019 than Blair, Brown and Milliband in the three preceding elections to 2017.
 
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