Tom_Boro
Well-known member
I don't really see an issue if they are just enjoying a pint with the football.
Middlesbrough Supporters Forum Raise Concerns Over Away Support
- Thread starter InglebyUTB
- Start date
Aet290204
Well-known member
You might see an issue if the Boro score and the ter-wats throw their pints in the air.
If this effing silly idea to let people drink in the stands ever comes to fruition that’s me sat in front of soccer Saturday every weekend instead of attending the occasional match.
Blaming football and the clubs is what thatcher did in the 80s, by the way.
If we are talking about criminality - groping(shocked me, that one), dealing then thats for the police not minimum wage stewards.
Is this not an obvious consequence of lower police numbers at games? like in the fuc.king insanity we have seen with 'police free' games?
If we are talking about criminality - groping(shocked me, that one), dealing then thats for the police not minimum wage stewards.
Is this not an obvious consequence of lower police numbers at games? like in the fuc.king insanity we have seen with 'police free' games?
afcb_acklam
Well-known member
a depressing thread
Aet290204
Well-known member
It may well be a depressing thread but it’s one that resonates with me because it discusses what put me off attending away games some 10 years back. Not that it’ll ever change my mind. As someone who lives 200
Miles away from Middlesbrough I made a conscious decision to only ever attend the odd home game thanks to the twattish behaviour of away fans. And I do realise it’s the minority that spoil it.
JM14
Well-known member
Have a look into some of the southern away games if you live in the area, the long trips especially Swansea/Cardiff, the south coast games and most of the London ones dont seem to have as many idiots attending and you usually find a great set of away fans for those games. Attended loads over the years and some of our "supporters" really make it a miserable experience when we take a big following to the local games, I can see why people are put off
weemoby
Well-known member
That’s appalling to read
Maybe the rule should be that boro fans are allowed a pint in the stands in the second half then.
Ravshoutsatbeck
Well-known member
I am less inclined to go to away games now than I was 10 years ago.
Increasing number of drunk idiots not really interested in the football - spending more time shouting at the opposition fans than cheering on the team. Picking fights with boro fans if anyone questions it.
No respect for people with frailty or minor disabilities that may want to sit in their seat that they have paid for.
Sexist chanting is a given sadly.
Racism creeping increasingly back in.
Lots of lads who want to be 80s hooligans...
Increasing number of drunk idiots not really interested in the football - spending more time shouting at the opposition fans than cheering on the team. Picking fights with boro fans if anyone questions it.
No respect for people with frailty or minor disabilities that may want to sit in their seat that they have paid for.
Sexist chanting is a given sadly.
Racism creeping increasingly back in.
Lots of lads who want to be 80s hooligans...
DCI_Gene_Hunt
Well-known member
You don't see an issue with people choosing to ignore the laws on drinking inside the stands?
Are you happy that they pick & choose which rules to follow? How about if they think any other rules don't apply to them and don't follow them either?
What if everyone thought the same and just chose to ignore rules they don't like?
Is this logic just ok inside the ground or does it apply outside of the ground as well?
r00fie1
Well-known member
The Football Lads Alliance organise violence and disruption at games - they feed on violence and heavy - handed engagement by Police and "Stewards". The idea you stop violence by using violence - dressed in a uniform, wont stop those fueled with violence and illicit drugs.
Alcohol is a dangerous drug - but it shouldnt have to be banned to enable an organised, informed intervention by police / stewards / security. Control outside the ground is the responsibility of legal authorities. Inside the ground - do we need a bar?
As for illicit drugs: where ever there is a crowd - be it a nightclub, a shopping centre, a busy street, a football match, a rugby match or a music venue >> there are illicit drugs. Big crowd events are an ideal market to illicit drug sellers.
Sniffer dogs are a more useful detection mechanism, than being frisked by an untrained zero-hours "steward" in a hi-vis jacket. The number of methods by which illicit substances, flares, etc can be taken into crowd events are numerous. I wont elaborate. If someone is intent on taking "goods" for sale once inside grounds - they will.
Part of the answer is deterence - and the proper maintenance and installation of facilities. Reduce the opportunities for sellers and users to carry out transactions.
Just an example: the male cubicles in the South Stand are a disgrace - they are dark, the lighting is ineffective, they are dirty and poorly maintained. - They are an ideal "stall": So are the soap dispensers and the "notice boards" facing the urinals - which need taking out.
* Blue lights in the toilets will reduce the risk of injecting drugs - because it reduces visibility of veins to the user.
* Stainless steel toilets - bolted to the floor and the wall with plastic or wooden inserts to rest on, would reduce the risk of drugs being taped at the back of or under the toilet. Anyone who has seen those used in secure units or prison will know exactly what I am talking about.
* Toilet doors need to be minimal in height to protect decency, but for drug and illicit use to be recognised more readilly.
* Cameras at the entrance / exit to the toilets need to be in place. Lighting in the concourse needs to include those areas in shadow - rather ultra-bright than dim.
* Loo roll holders are an ideal space to transfer drugs.
* It takes seconds to do a deal - and disguise transactions. What looks like an innocent behaviour to the untrained eye could be like the Amazon delivery in a crowd.
There are areas in the South stands where the intended seller / user can exchange drugs / substances with low risk. Its no good kidding ourselves that the heavy fist is going to stop this behaviour.
Why isnt there an "app" which Boro fans can simply attach and use to anonymously report suspect behaviours anonymously? [Forgive me - if there is one - but I know nothing about it] Why arent there huge signs in the concourses with contact numbers and direct links to the Control Box - and trained safety officers who can react swifty and sensitively to identify and remove the sellers? Diving into a crowd causes provocation and reduces co-operation with fans. We are not cattle.
Being reactive has proven over decades not to work. These issues are not "football(s)" problem. They are and always have been a societal problem. Once hooked - a drug user [including everyone who uses alcohol] - will find what they are looking for. We have to try and minimise the opportunities in our ground - starting before we pass through the turnstiles. If turning out ones pockets is considered an effective means of finding illicit substances or flares - it doesnt work.
We have to all think sideways - not come out with slogans or labels. Two big middle-aged blokes in front of me on Saturday, were so intoxicated, they could hardly stand and watched none of the game. One in particular was insulting people - but I wasnt going to confront him. Another fan informed a steward - who was about 18, slim and short - with no experience of crowd monitoring or engagement - and appeared afraid to say anything to them. What good is that?
Alcohol is a dangerous drug - but it shouldnt have to be banned to enable an organised, informed intervention by police / stewards / security. Control outside the ground is the responsibility of legal authorities. Inside the ground - do we need a bar?
As for illicit drugs: where ever there is a crowd - be it a nightclub, a shopping centre, a busy street, a football match, a rugby match or a music venue >> there are illicit drugs. Big crowd events are an ideal market to illicit drug sellers.
Sniffer dogs are a more useful detection mechanism, than being frisked by an untrained zero-hours "steward" in a hi-vis jacket. The number of methods by which illicit substances, flares, etc can be taken into crowd events are numerous. I wont elaborate. If someone is intent on taking "goods" for sale once inside grounds - they will.
Part of the answer is deterence - and the proper maintenance and installation of facilities. Reduce the opportunities for sellers and users to carry out transactions.
Just an example: the male cubicles in the South Stand are a disgrace - they are dark, the lighting is ineffective, they are dirty and poorly maintained. - They are an ideal "stall": So are the soap dispensers and the "notice boards" facing the urinals - which need taking out.
* Blue lights in the toilets will reduce the risk of injecting drugs - because it reduces visibility of veins to the user.
* Stainless steel toilets - bolted to the floor and the wall with plastic or wooden inserts to rest on, would reduce the risk of drugs being taped at the back of or under the toilet. Anyone who has seen those used in secure units or prison will know exactly what I am talking about.
* Toilet doors need to be minimal in height to protect decency, but for drug and illicit use to be recognised more readilly.
* Cameras at the entrance / exit to the toilets need to be in place. Lighting in the concourse needs to include those areas in shadow - rather ultra-bright than dim.
* Loo roll holders are an ideal space to transfer drugs.
* It takes seconds to do a deal - and disguise transactions. What looks like an innocent behaviour to the untrained eye could be like the Amazon delivery in a crowd.
There are areas in the South stands where the intended seller / user can exchange drugs / substances with low risk. Its no good kidding ourselves that the heavy fist is going to stop this behaviour.
Why isnt there an "app" which Boro fans can simply attach and use to anonymously report suspect behaviours anonymously? [Forgive me - if there is one - but I know nothing about it] Why arent there huge signs in the concourses with contact numbers and direct links to the Control Box - and trained safety officers who can react swifty and sensitively to identify and remove the sellers? Diving into a crowd causes provocation and reduces co-operation with fans. We are not cattle.
Being reactive has proven over decades not to work. These issues are not "football(s)" problem. They are and always have been a societal problem. Once hooked - a drug user [including everyone who uses alcohol] - will find what they are looking for. We have to try and minimise the opportunities in our ground - starting before we pass through the turnstiles. If turning out ones pockets is considered an effective means of finding illicit substances or flares - it doesnt work.
We have to all think sideways - not come out with slogans or labels. Two big middle-aged blokes in front of me on Saturday, were so intoxicated, they could hardly stand and watched none of the game. One in particular was insulting people - but I wasnt going to confront him. Another fan informed a steward - who was about 18, slim and short - with no experience of crowd monitoring or engagement - and appeared afraid to say anything to them. What good is that?
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r00fie1
Well-known member
I have to disagree.
The notion of "do-gooders" means nothing - other than to justify the strategy of using force and instilling fear by the state.
It also shows a complete denial that the use of force has been ineffective and totally contradicts the proposed strategy of fear by the use of violence.
Most of what you`ve asserted, rests on the strategy of using external force, not looking at ourselves and deciding what we can do to effect a change of attitudes and the use of [for instance] illicit substances. It cant go unnoticed that there has been a "war on drugs" since Thatcher [at least] and it is also quite obvious that it is a complete nonsense.
The use of illicit substances has increased considerably and drugs are more readily available than a loaf of sliced bread.
We have to consider all realistic options and work out practical solutions - ie. taking responsibility ourselves - for what you and me are going to do about the issues - to effect change. Once we agree to do that - we have a platform to take positive steps to reduce the opportunity for drug sellers and users in our ground.
we cant do that as individuals - but as a group - fans. I have proposed a number of small, relatively inexpensive, issues which can be rectified within a matter of days - in the South Stand [See above].
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r00fie1
Well-known member
Hope for the future for positive change is what drives progress: that includes a drugs market on our football concourses. Without hope there is no change for the better.
As for schools: respect is earned, not commanded. Leadership is by example from the front, not from the pious pulpit of self - righteousness.
Otto42
Well-known member
Absolutely, how do you encourage youngsters to respect rules which are for the good of society as whole when you have people lauded in positions of power for openly ignoring rules and calling out those who complain of abuse as being 'woke'......this anti-social behaviour is something which is creeping into all aspects of our society. I guess it's up to us all to call it out and by raising here and at the MSF the first steps are being taken.