Luke Jobson trial

You can't vote for austerity then expect extra money to be spent on what gets you worked up.

This is the reality of public spending cuts.
 
Lefty said:
It's the sentencing that annoys me most. It's hard enough for the Police to reach the bar for the CPS to go for prosecution, but how frustrating it must be to manage all that and then find the judges sentence is lenient.

I'd like to blame the judges, but often their hands are tied by government and a judicial system that has been cut to the bone. We have back logs for trials, woeful pay rates for many solicitors in the criminal sector and overcrowded inefficient privatised prisons.

On top of that we have a government openly prepared to break international law, SPAD's treated differently to the rest of us and our Lord Chancellor ⁦Robert Buckland⁩ (Hon.QC) and Law Officers of England and Wales ⁦Suella Braverman⁩ (Hon.QC) and Michael Ellis1⁩ (Hon.QC) just voted against a clause ‘requiring Ministers to respect the rule of law and uphold the independence of the Courts'.

This is what happens to a democracy when you reward dodgy practices such as those of Vote Leave. This is Vote Leave now in Government remember.
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Good grief Lefty only you could link this subject to Brexit! Plea bargaining has been standard practice for years and has nothing to do with politics
 
Hicktonpen10 said:
Good grief Lefty only you could link this subject to Brexit! Plea bargaining has been standard practice for years and has nothing to do with politics
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Do you think I’m wrong about sentencing, the guidelines, the knock on effects that government policies regarding prisons and legal funding have at the sharp end for the general public?

And I did think it pertinent to something the legal profession believe is extremely significant that has also happened this week. I mean it was just this week, it’s not like I was bringing up the repeal of the corn laws.
 
Lefty said:
Do you think I’m wrong about sentencing, the guidelines, the knock on effects that government policies regarding prisons and legal funding have at the sharp end for the general public?

And I did think it pertinent to something the legal profession believe is extremely significant that has also happened this week. I mean it was just this week, it’s not like I was bringing up the repeal of the corn laws.
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Sorry you have completely lost me I was merely making the point that plea bargains have been made for decades and Brexit is the biggest of red herrings in this thread
 
Hicktonpen10 said:
Sorry you have completely lost me I was merely making the point that plea bargains have been made for decades and Brexit is the biggest of red herrings in this thread
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Yes, I know, but the point I was making was going a little bit further, ie why we have plea bargaining. Perhaps I should have clearly drawn the line instead of assuming that people understood all the underlying reasons for plea bargaining.

I've googled 'Why are plea bargains made'.

The first answer

'The use of plea bargaining avoids the risk of the defendant being cleared in court due to the evidence being weak or not enough and due to the rate cases are dealt with when plea bargaining is involved and practised it speeds up cases and saves the money on time consuming trials, freeing and making available criminal ... '

The second

'What are the major reasons for plea bargaining?
Common reasons why defendants enter into plea bargains.
  • Saving money. ...
  • Getting out of jail. ...
  • Resolving the matter quickly. ...
  • Having fewer or less-serious offenses on one's record. ...
  • Having a less socially stigmatizing offense on one's record. ...
  • Avoiding hassles. ...
  • Avoiding publicity. ...
  • Keeping others out of the case.'
My post was relevant, don't you agree? It's just I went a bit further into the reasons why these 'injustices' happen, because we really need to think about how to address them. That means understanding the true causes rather than just stopping at the simplest, most convenient reason we can have a whinge at or direct blame. There are two parties involved in agreeing a plea bargain, it's important to know the considerations each must balance. In the prosecutions case it is unfortunately not just getting the right result or the prospect of success, but the cost to the public purse and in sentencing the judges are keenly aware of the issues around our prisons and government policy and guidance as a result.

The overall view in the legal profession is that the criminal justice system is currently very close to collapse. This is not an exaggeration. This is as a result of 10 years of Conservative austerity measures and some ridiculous policy decisions by Michael Gove and especially Chris Grayling.

I'm sorry if you don't like the links to Brexit but it is the same people behind it and much of the same flawed thinking.

You need to be prepared, brexit may be over, but it will impact every aspect of UK life and it is crucial we understand this, so it will be pointed out, we need to recover from it and we need to learn why we made such a stupid decision. It is the poor thought process that we must understand and learn from, because comparisons can be made with almost every stupid decision we have ever made, be that on covid, Iraq, certain privatisations and nationalisations, Lysenkoism etc. etc.

Are you a Tory voter/Leave voter by any chance?
 
Lefty said:
Yes, I know, but the point I was making was going a little bit further, ie why we have plea bargaining. Perhaps I should have clearly drawn the line instead of assuming that people understood all the underlying reasons for plea bargaining.

I've googled 'Why are plea bargains made'.

The first answer

'The use of plea bargaining avoids the risk of the defendant being cleared in court due to the evidence being weak or not enough and due to the rate cases are dealt with when plea bargaining is involved and practised it speeds up cases and saves the money on time consuming trials, freeing and making available criminal ... '

The second

'What are the major reasons for plea bargaining?
Common reasons why defendants enter into plea bargains.
  • Saving money. ...
  • Getting out of jail. ...
  • Resolving the matter quickly. ...
  • Having fewer or less-serious offenses on one's record. ...
  • Having a less socially stigmatizing offense on one's record. ...
  • Avoiding hassles. ...
  • Avoiding publicity. ...
  • Keeping others out of the case.'
My post was relevant, don't you agree? It's just I went a bit further into the reasons why these 'injustices' happen, because we really need to think about how to address them. That means understanding the true causes rather than just stopping at the simplest, most convenient reason we can have a whinge at or direct blame. There are two parties involved in agreeing a plea bargain, it's important to know the considerations each must balance. In the prosecutions case it is unfortunately not just getting the right result or the prospect of success, but the cost to the public purse and in sentencing the judges are keenly aware of the issues around our prisons and government policy and guidance as a result.

The overall view in the legal profession is that the criminal justice system is currently very close to collapse. This is not an exaggeration. This is as a result of 10 years of Conservative austerity measures and some ridiculous policy decisions by Michael Gove and especially Chris Grayling.

I'm sorry if you don't like the links to Brexit but it is the same people behind it and much of the same flawed thinking.

You need to be prepared, brexit may be over, but it will impact every aspect of UK life and it is crucial we understand this, so it will be pointed out, we need to recover from it and we need to learn why we made such a stupid decision. It is the poor thought process that we must understand and learn from, because comparisons can be made with almost every stupid decision we have ever made, be that on covid, Iraq, certain privatisations and nationalisations, Lysenkoism etc. etc.

Are you a Tory voter/Leave voter by any chance?
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Lefty unlike you I am not a political animal and hold no torch for the Tories or Labour and will praise or criticise on a subject by subject basis. However I know about the law and compromise is a part of both civil and criminal law. I don't disagree with your points about the state of the legal system but even with a well funded legal system there would be bargaining and compromise. I voted for Brexit and time will tell whether I or you are right but I won't stoop to your level of personal insult.
 
Lefty the shitness in the criminal justice system has nothing to do with Brexit. Nothing whatsoever. The impact of brexit will be in our ability to obtain cooperation from countries. I don't think this is having much of an impact currently.
The system was in a bad place before austerity. In around 2010-2015 it was on its knees due to staff cuts. It has got better recently due to technology's implemented, and money being put back into the system. CPS and police have been able to recruit more staff, barristers fees have been upped. Covid is another kick in the gut, but one more easily dealt with than losing a third of your staff.
Boris Johnson has been far better than the previous incumbents simply for the fact he has pumped more money into the system.
 
Hicktonpen10 said:
Lefty unlike you I am not a political animal and hold no torch for the Tories or Labour and will praise or criticise on a subject by subject basis. However I know about the law and compromise is a part of both civil and criminal law. I don't disagree with your points about the state of the legal system but even with a well funded legal system there would be bargaining and compromise. I voted for Brexit and time will tell whether I or you are right but I won't stoop to your level of personal insult.
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Personal insult?

What was the personal insult?
 
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