1finny
Well-known member
Yeah - thanks for taking the trouble to point this out - very clear now.
I’ve re run it and, I think they are being fair.
I’d paraphrase
‘How can she claim the evidence is medically illiterate if she hasn’t read it’
Lucy letby
- Thread starter Legz
- Start date
Yeah - thanks for taking the trouble to point this out - very clear now.
I’ve re run it and, I think they are being fair.
I’d paraphrase
‘How can she claim the evidence is medically illiterate if she hasn’t read it’
Redwurzel
Well-known member
The issue as suggested by Millbrook, is how sincere is the consultant and are there any hidden motives behind his interview?
If and I do stress if the consultant wanted to protect himself and the senior medical staff and the Unit as a whole - it was a perfect interview. i.e. "it was nothing to do with me Gov or anyone or anything else, and it was all Lucy Letby".
For example there was no questioning by the ITV interviewer of anything wrong in the Unit except the actions/non-actions of LL. The interviewer is throwing the ball up in the air for the consultant to hit for 6. If Jeremy Paxman were the interviewer I would expect some probing and uncomfortable questioning.
Such as:
Why were consultants and doctors not present as much as they should have been in the Baby Unit? or needed to be?
Did you deal with all the babies that were judged to have been murdered?
Why was LL doing lots of extra time in the Unit?
Why was LL allowed to be alone for so long with the babies?
Was this common?
Was there anything that could have been improved in the Unit say with the equipment and/or systems?
Were the hygiene levels as high as you have wished?
Why did all the managers not act earlier? (if all the consultants thought she was a murderer surely closing the unit would have been safer for the babies even if they had to go to another hospital)?
Do Consultants always do exactly as they are told by NHS hospital managers?
Which other staff besides you observed LL possibly harming babies?
How many consultants and junior doctors worked in the Baby Unit?
What did you say to LL when you observed her malpractice? - you were a consultant of 24 years standing at the time and surely had the authority to seriously reprimand her?
Why do you feel you need to come on ITV News and give a 9 minute solo interview to a National audience?
If and I do stress if the consultant wanted to protect himself and the senior medical staff and the Unit as a whole - it was a perfect interview. i.e. "it was nothing to do with me Gov or anyone or anything else, and it was all Lucy Letby".
For example there was no questioning by the ITV interviewer of anything wrong in the Unit except the actions/non-actions of LL. The interviewer is throwing the ball up in the air for the consultant to hit for 6. If Jeremy Paxman were the interviewer I would expect some probing and uncomfortable questioning.
Such as:
Why were consultants and doctors not present as much as they should have been in the Baby Unit? or needed to be?
Did you deal with all the babies that were judged to have been murdered?
Why was LL doing lots of extra time in the Unit?
Why was LL allowed to be alone for so long with the babies?
Was this common?
Was there anything that could have been improved in the Unit say with the equipment and/or systems?
Were the hygiene levels as high as you have wished?
Why did all the managers not act earlier? (if all the consultants thought she was a murderer surely closing the unit would have been safer for the babies even if they had to go to another hospital)?
Do Consultants always do exactly as they are told by NHS hospital managers?
Which other staff besides you observed LL possibly harming babies?
How many consultants and junior doctors worked in the Baby Unit?
What did you say to LL when you observed her malpractice? - you were a consultant of 24 years standing at the time and surely had the authority to seriously reprimand her?
Why do you feel you need to come on ITV News and give a 9 minute solo interview to a National audience?
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At first I thought she was evil beyond anything I could ever get my head around....then I started reading things that made me doubt....now I don't know what to believe...there is a lot now that does make you think...but then I wasn't in the courtroom and am well aware not all the evidence is public.
I'm beginning to feel uneasy about all of this though as I can't help but feel for those poor families involved. They thought they had justice....and now it's...rightly or wrongly....being questioned.
I just don't know anymore
I'm beginning to feel uneasy about all of this though as I can't help but feel for those poor families involved. They thought they had justice....and now it's...rightly or wrongly....being questioned.
I just don't know anymore
ForssAwakens
Well-known member
Just watched the channel 5 doc
The point about the post mortems saying natural causes, is there any explanation for this as aware of the documentary bias
The point about the post mortems saying natural causes, is there any explanation for this as aware of the documentary bias
Millbrook
Well-known member
Not entirely sure what you are asking but of the 7 babies LL was accused of killing 6 had a PM. 5 were found to have died of natural causes and 1 was unascertained but was not categorised as unnatural.
1finny
Well-known member
Private Eye have a further feature.
In summary they agree with the two KCs earlier - the only chance for her is for the new defence counsel to offer an alternative narrative to deliberate harm.
He goes further to suggest the options.
1. Statisticians argue the increases in deaths experienced in Chester happen by random fluctuation in neonatal units across the UK.
As such nothing abnormal about Letby.
Experienced pathologists performing post mortems on 6 of the babies failed to detect any signs of deliberate harm. Ergo - it was all bad luck.
2. As these ‘instances’ are fairly common you could call the police to other neo natal units using the same methodology. You could then find a nurse who was present and charge him/her.
3. They have to nullify the many ‘gotcha’ moments - he gives some ideas on how this might happen
* Dewi Evans
* Insulin
* Liver Trauma
* The spreadsheet
* The confession
* The whistlblowers
He does mention one more thing.
Apparently a year ago Evan’s and Jayaram (one of the whistlblowers) were confident there would be more successful prosecutions of Letby.
Evans has reported on 82 cases to the police - Letby has been convicted of 14.
Further convictions should be relatively straightforward now she is a mass murderer. She is convicted on circumstantial eveidence (largely) and the certainty of Evans and Jayaram.
He closes with - So where are these other murderers.
I’m just summarising the above for info. Not saying I agree or disagree with any of it.
I tried to take pics but ‘photos too large’ keeps appearing
In summary they agree with the two KCs earlier - the only chance for her is for the new defence counsel to offer an alternative narrative to deliberate harm.
He goes further to suggest the options.
1. Statisticians argue the increases in deaths experienced in Chester happen by random fluctuation in neonatal units across the UK.
As such nothing abnormal about Letby.
Experienced pathologists performing post mortems on 6 of the babies failed to detect any signs of deliberate harm. Ergo - it was all bad luck.
2. As these ‘instances’ are fairly common you could call the police to other neo natal units using the same methodology. You could then find a nurse who was present and charge him/her.
3. They have to nullify the many ‘gotcha’ moments - he gives some ideas on how this might happen
* Dewi Evans
* Insulin
* Liver Trauma
* The spreadsheet
* The confession
* The whistlblowers
He does mention one more thing.
Apparently a year ago Evan’s and Jayaram (one of the whistlblowers) were confident there would be more successful prosecutions of Letby.
Evans has reported on 82 cases to the police - Letby has been convicted of 14.
Further convictions should be relatively straightforward now she is a mass murderer. She is convicted on circumstantial eveidence (largely) and the certainty of Evans and Jayaram.
He closes with - So where are these other murderers.
I’m just summarising the above for info. Not saying I agree or disagree with any of it.
I tried to take pics but ‘photos too large’ keeps appearing
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FabioPorkpie
Well-known member
Another podcast that discusses the interest around the Letby case and is a very worthwhile listen. It’s only the initial part of the podcast, so doesn’t take long.
An important (and for some, hopefully illuminating..) point is made regarding the question's being asked re statistics.
podcasts.apple.com
An important (and for some, hopefully illuminating..) point is made regarding the question's being asked re statistics.
Why are people obsessed with the Lucy Letby case?
Health Secretary Wes Streeting has told Lewis that the wishes of the parents of the babies murdered by Lucy Letby must be respected. And yet - as the inquiry i
podcasts.apple.com
North22
Well-known member
Known as Nurse death in the Hospital yet a few on here are keen to see her released.
www.bbc.co.uk
Junior doctors called Lucy Letby 'Nurse Death', inquiry told
The NHS's response to serial killer Lucy Letby's crimes is being examined in a public inquiry.
www.bbc.co.uk
Muttley
Well-known member
Said no one that I recall?
It is a very strange case and basing a conviction on name calling, a post-it-note and some statistical analysis is unusual. As others have said, we haven't been privy to all the evidence.
JonnyHistory
Well-known member
That is very understating the evidence she was convicted on, it is the longest trial in UK history (not including her retrial/second trial for the 14th murder) there is a lot more evidence than what you are claiming here.
festa5
Well-known member
Her being nicknamed "nurse death" by junior doctors proves absolutely nothing more than the evidence she was on shift for the deaths does. I hope you're never on a jury if that's the level of your deductive reasoning.Known as Nurse death in the Hospital yet a few on here are keen to see her released.
Junior doctors called Lucy Letby 'Nurse Death', inquiry told
The NHS's response to serial killer Lucy Letby's crimes is being examined in a public inquiry.
I also don't see anyone keen to see her released. A few have doubts about the evidence and would like it reviewing, which is a very different matter.
FabioPorkpie
Well-known member
Your last sentence explains the errors in your second sentence.
Muttley
Well-known member
Hyperbole. Corrected. Same paragraph.
FabioPorkpie
Well-known member
If I misunderstood your post, and you are actually being sarcastic (or not being serious) with the comment ‘basing a conviction on name calling, a post-it-note and some statistical analysis is unusual’, then forgive me. It’s hard to tell, because some armchair sleuths and TikTok conspiracists really believe that’s all there is behind the conviction.
BigAl76
Well-known member
Those two KC chaps on the podcast essentially said, no one can comment on the case without reading at least, the full report from the Court of Appeal (a 58 page document that was posted on here), without any degree of validity
I'm not saying everyone should shut up but if you are really invested in this story and you want to back up your arguments in order to speak with any kind of authority - you've got some reading to do.
I'm not saying everyone should shut up but if you are really invested in this story and you want to back up your arguments in order to speak with any kind of authority - you've got some reading to do.
JonnyHistory
Well-known member
I honestly believe if she was any other race or gender the "fight" to prove her innocence would be almost non-existent.
Some of the armchair sleuthing around this case would be comical if it didn't cause so much agony to the parents of the victims.
FabioPorkpie
Well-known member
The clips of social media posts played on that newsagent podcast I linked earlier sadly reminded me of some of the posts on this thread.
I think that podcast made a good fist of trying to explain why this case has now attracted so much attention and is so prone to conspiracy and armchair detective work.
Alzi
Well-known member
I’m not sure people are fighting to prove her innocence as such but there is certainly a lot more scrutiny that we are used to for convicted serial killers.
Sadly I think you are correct to a degree re her being middle class and white. This is influencing the narrative on social media particularly. We saw a similar phenomenon with sleuthing re. Nicola Bulley.
The impact on the victims’ families can get lost in all of this noise. I think most on this board are genuinely respectful and just curious but I have seen plenty of pretty inconsiderate messages on social media demanding Letby’s release etc.
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Redwurzel
Well-known member
She is not middle class to me- she was brought up in a very ordinary house in a working class area of Hereford where her parents still live (Putson) and attended the roughest comprehensive school in Hereford. (Heywood).
In the hospital structure she was towards the bottom, well below the consultants, doctors, junior doctors, hospital managers. I suspect her salary was not middle class neither.
In the hospital structure she was towards the bottom, well below the consultants, doctors, junior doctors, hospital managers. I suspect her salary was not middle class neither.
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