London: Chris Kaba

For me it’s a shame all these issues expose splits in the fmttm readership, from politics to CW to crime etc. The kids stabbing/ being stabbed to my mind are more victims of the billions being made from cocaine, laundering etc by the Albanian, Turkish etc. gangs
 
Why ? oh hang on maybe its so that it fits in with what you said at the beginning of the thread.See below


(Clutching here Kosovo he was shot unarmed which is highly illegal. Don’t be surprised if the shooter is a privileged white male with right wing beliefs and voted for the Tory party. We need to rid ourselves of this dirge before it’s too late. Starting with PC shoots on sight.)
You don’t think it’s good every avenue is being explored?
 
Those were pretty much the reported facts
On a much less significant issue, it was reported (via the police) that at Bristol 'Kill the Bill' protests, 1 police office suffered a broken leg, and one a punctured lung. This obviously supported a need for brute force by the police.

2 days later, to little fanfare, the Police confirmed they had been mistaken.

Mark Duggan is a very relevant case. Whatever the why's and wherefores of what actually happened that day, what is pretty clear is that the police lied, changed statements, embellished his criminal history etc etc over a significant period of time.

Control the narrative
 
On a much less significant issue, it was reported (via the police) that at Bristol 'Kill the Bill' protests, 1 police office suffered a broken leg, and one a punctured lung. This obviously supported a need for brute force by the police.

2 days later, to little fanfare, the Police confirmed they had been mistaken.

Mark Duggan is a very relevant case. Whatever the why's and wherefores of what actually happened that day, what is pretty clear is that the police lied, changed statements, embellished his criminal history etc etc over a significant period of time.

Control the narrative
Was duggan an innocent man then?
 
Was duggan an innocent man then?
Innocent of what?

I am simply pointing out that what is fed into the media and reported by them is not necessarily factual. That is undeniably the case in the Mark Duggan shooting.

If you choose to deny that the police lied and gave conflicting and misleading evidence in that case then you are pretty much denying reality.
 
Innocent of what?

I am simply pointing out that what is fed into the media and reported by them is not necessarily factual. That is undeniably the case in the Mark Duggan shooting.

If you choose to deny that the police lied and gave conflicting and misleading evidence in that case then you are pretty much denying reality.
The answer is no, he wasn’t innocent. He had collected a gun shortly before he was shot. His motive in doing so was to seek revenge. He was on the radar of op trident (which you dont get on by stealing mars bars). He exited the cab in possession of the gun and was shot by the officer who feared for his life.
What followed was a witch hunt until the facts were known which fuelled rioting not seen since with people dying, criminal acts being committed and thousands of hours jail time.
I’d agree that what the media report is not always factual which ultimately led to the after events listed above. The media guide the narrative.
 
The answer is no, he wasn’t innocent. He had collected a gun shortly before he was shot. His motive in doing so was to seek revenge. He was on the radar of op trident (which you dont get on by stealing mars bars). He exited the cab in possession of the gun and was shot by the officer who feared for his life.
What followed was a witch hunt until the facts were known which fuelled rioting not seen since with people dying, criminal acts being committed and thousands of hours jail time.
I’d agree that what the media report is not always factual which ultimately led to the after events listed above. The media guide the narrative.
We know he had the gun outside of the car? Forensic evidence suggests otherwise. It also finds it implausible that Duggan threw it away. Police accounts of the position of how he was shot have also been discredited.

I'm not suggesting Duggan was a great guy. I'm also not trying to belittle the fear the police may have felt at that time.

However, much as people say why not do as the police ask if you have done nothing wrong, then why lie, as a policeman, when recounting the incident if you have nothing to hide?
 
We know he had the gun outside of the car? Forensic evidence suggests otherwise. It also finds it implausible that Duggan threw it away. Police accounts of the position of how he was shot have also been discredited.

I'm not suggesting Duggan was a great guy. I'm also not trying to belittle the fear the police may have felt at that time.

However, much as people say why not do as the police ask if you have done nothing wrong, then why lie, as a policeman, when recounting the incident if you have nothing to hide?
We know it was located outside of the car. We know it WAS in Duggan’s possession. As I understand it was in a sock in another item and Duggar’s DNA was on the outer item.
There is no doubt that gun was in Duggan’s possession whilst he travelled in the taxi.
I don’t know how the gun came to rest where it was.
What I do know is that no matter what the circumstance there will always be discrepancy between witnesses, police or otherwise. I have some knowledge of how and why the brain processes and stores memory so no matter if your police, civilian or David beckham there will be discrepancy.
I’d say the same with Duggan the same as kaba. He wasn’t shot because of the colour of his skin (the cops may have been black, who knows) He was shot because of the type of person he was, the life he led and ultimately decisions he made. He played a stupid game and won a stupid prize.
 
We know he had the gun outside of the car? Forensic evidence suggests otherwise. It also finds it implausible that Duggan threw it away. Police accounts of the position of how he was shot have also been discredited.

I'm not suggesting Duggan was a great guy. I'm also not trying to belittle the fear the police may have felt at that time.

However, much as people say why not do as the police ask if you have done nothing wrong, then why lie, as a policeman, when recounting the incident if you have nothing to hide?
Suggesting someone has lied is a huge leap and ignorant of the fact that the memory can often be distorted when faced with a situation that is driven by adrenaline.

Memories are perceptions of events and witnesses are almost never consistent when viewing the same event.

I do have experience of managing the aftermath of such incidents and its incredible how the mind and peoples memories of the same incident can differ.
 
Suggesting someone has lied is a huge leap and ignorant of the fact that the memory can often be distorted when faced with a situation that is driven by adrenaline.

Memories are perceptions of events and witnesses are almost never consistent when viewing the same event.

I do have experience of managing the aftermath of such incidents and its incredible how the mind and peoples memories of the same incident can differ.
I'm not suggesting people should have a 100% recollection of how an incredibly stressful incident played out.

However, I would question the motives behind the release of info suggesting Duggan was some sort of gang land warlord, when his criminal record suggested otherwise (it would appear he was under surveillance from Trident for a potential, very specific, issue).

I would also take issue with early statements that there was a shoot out. This was categorically not the case.

Finally, claiming that Duggan had the gun, and threw it over the fence, seems to be a big mistake to make. Forensic evidence implies Duggan had never removed the weapon from its box.

These are pretty fundamental 'mistakes' to make.
 
The absence of any convictions doesn't mean he wasn't involved in drug dealing and gang crime - he was obviously under surveillance at the time of the shooting, after he had collected the handgun from a friend who was later imprisoned for possessing it. It also emerged that there was extensive and detailed intelligence regarding his criminal activities.

The suggestion of a shootout was due to an error on behalf of the IOPC, an organisation who frankly are not fit for purpose. IIRC the IOPC acknowledged this mistake, most likely due to the fact that one of the officers was himself shot.

I'm not sure what your final point is, with respect; it's a fact that the weapon recovered was the one collected by Duggan and it had dna on it from the man later convicted of its possession.

Ultimately, a detailed investigation and inquest found no wrongdoing on the part of those involved. I agree that there are parts of this which leave some questions unanswered, but that is often the case.
 
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