London: Chris Kaba

Alex-The-Kid said:
Are you seriously suggesting shooting joyriders? Or have I got this wrong?
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I'd rather someone doing an illegal activity was shot /hung/ or detained for a substantial length , over an innocent person dying through their actions every day of the week ,the justice system currently is no deterrent to these idiots
 
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Heam44 said:
Deserved isn’t a word I’d want to use.

And I’d like to point out that I know very little about this incident (having only become aware of it due to the creation of this thread).

However I believe the vehicle was being stopped due to being linked / involved in a firearms incident in the previous days. See link:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-62854660.amp

Also, it’s possible that the deceased was known to be involved with firearms due to the link posted by Kosovo earlier in the thread which states a Chris Kaba, aged 19 was charged with firearms offences in 2018.

www.newhamrecorder.co.uk

Man, 19, charged with Canning Town shooting

A man has appeared in court following a firearms incident in Canning Town.
www.newhamrecorder.co.uk www.newhamrecorder.co.uk

Also I believe the BBC article states that the vehicle was involved in a pursuit

So the firearms officer knows he is approaching a vehicle that was very recently linked to a firearms incident, he may possibly have known the driver was Chris Kaba, and therefore likely known Kaba was linked to firearms offences previously (this information is routinely passed via police radio), if the article regarding a “Chris Kaba” being charged with a firearms offence is the same Chris Kaba. Also it’s possible that police intelligence linked Chris Kaba to that vehicle, and possibly linked him to the firearms offence in the previous days.

Bear in mind Kaba had failed to stop for police (according to BBC website), the officer certainly approached that vehicle suspecting that it was involved in a firearms incident in the previous days (BBC article), and possibly knew that Chris Kaba (possibly linked to firearms, as per historic article), was linked to the vehicle/driving the vehicle (either through police intelligence or due to having being identified by another officer or in fact the officer in question). Also police intelligence may have linked Kaba to the firearms incident in the previous days (entirely an educated guess on my part).

Lastly, if the vehicle has failed to stop for police, the officer in question knows the driver is actively wanting to avoid police, the officer will have instructed the driver to show his hands, if the driver / Kaba ignored those instructions and say acted in another way, the officer may have made the decision to shoot.
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Good post, it’s not a clear cut white police officer murders young black male as many seem to want to believe for some reason, we will find out in time what info the officer was given and if protocol was followed and whether his actions could be justified or not.
 
Priv said:
Good post, it’s not a clear cut white police officer murders young black male as many seem to want to believe for some reason, we will find out in time what info the officer was given and if protocol was followed and whether his actions could be justified or not.
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Hit the nail on the head there sir (y)
 
Its not the first time that the IOPC has opened a homicide investigation after a fatal shooting, but in every case its been proved to be ill conceived.

This decision is entirely motivated by their fear of public criticism and entirely predictable by the IOPC, an organisation that is wholly unfit for purpose.

I feel for the family of Chris Kaba, but a witch hunt won't bring him back.
 
I think the left can be quite annoying.
The Home Secretary says her 1st priority is immigrants and making the streets safer by holding the police to account, eh?
 
Jonny Ingbar said:
Its not the first time that the IOPC has opened a homicide investigation after a fatal shooting, but in every case its been proved to be ill conceived.

This decision is entirely motivated by their fear of public criticism and entirely predictable by the IOPC, an organisation that is wholly unfit for purpose.

I feel for the family of Chris Kaba, but a witch hunt won't bring him back.
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The family especially but also the public need to know the truth. Transparency in public life is essential for any confidence in state institution. The delays in giving any information to the family is a disgrace. If it wasn’t for the public outcry and political intervention, the family would still be waiting for any kind of information. Try and put yourself in their shoes for a minut.
 
Great post @Heam44.

I don’t normally like weighing in on this sort of stuff as it’s such a delicate subject, there’s real grief involved for the families and none of us know the circumstances or people involved. Plus this is a fun football messageboard.

But - I’m not having these characterisations of a “innocent, unarmed father-to-be” who was beloved in his community. Be real, tell the truth about who the guy was. It shouldn’t diminish the tragedy if your real issue is out of control policing. If it does diminish the tragedy, isn’t it hypocritical not to say “the guy was a gangster, doing gangster stuff when this happened, but his parents still loved him and the police should face consequences if this wasn’t lawful”? Why hide the truth of it if you feel this will get less sympathy from people, aren’t you demonstrating in the first place to get the truth?

The circumstances and context are important, and neither party involved should hide facts which don’t suit their narrative. Same with the death of the guy which sparked the London riots, who achieved martyr status. That wasn’t the police deciding to execute a young black man for no reason, it was on the surface a similar situation to this - police chase of a known, pretty high level gangster with a very high suspicion of firearms involvement.

It’s also disappointing when people try to drive a false equivalence with the serious issues America has with racism and guns which sparked the BLM movement.

The police in this country, for all their myriad faults, simply do not go around gunning people down in cold blood, regardless of their race. There’s always so many mitigating factors, as outlined in Heam’s earlier post. Which, when you look past the headline you start to understand how the police involved made the calculations to pull the trigger as a worst case, split second last resort. Which, whether it’s right or wrong, and it’s unquestionably sad and tragic, has life-changing consequences for everyone involved. I’m 100% sure they would never do it lightly, in this country.

Even with Jean Charles de Menezes, the most egregious example of a police shooting in the UK that I can think of. When you put that in context and read about how that situation panned out - failed Tube bombing the day before, armed police on maximum high alert on public transport, mistaken identification of a guy with backpack as one of the suspects, runs from police and jumps ticket gate running towards packed train - you start to understand how the calculations they made were actually reasonable. Incredibly tragic in this case, because he truly was innocent of everything, but reasonable.

I was also curious about Chris Kaba from this thread, so googled the rap/drill band 67 he was in, and the first lyrics of the first song were about how the rapper stabbed someone in the face over and over again, it was disgusting.

Of course a lot of this is YouTube bravado. Of course, no one in the world deserves to be killed by police for the music they make, or the lifestyle they lead, or the previous convictions they have, or even for running from a police stop whilst being wanted for a firearms offence the day before or anything. It’s horribly sad. You play stupid games and you win stupid prizes, but no-one ever deserves that prize.

But let’s not make these people out to be angels and martyrs, they are far from it. Let’s not make out like we’re the USA because we’re far, far from it. Also let’s not make out that the Met police are saints, because they’re also far from it and institutional racism is a massive issue down there both for trust and controlling crime - it has a compounding effect with only negative consequences.

Sometimes I think people try too hard to draw parallels between this kind of thing and the police shootings in the US to be able to align with the BLM movement that everyone knows and understands. It’s a vitally important movement and the US is disgraceful on this issue, as it is on anything to do with guns. Totally out of control and tragic. But it’s not like that here, never has been. Shame, I normally quite like Zara Sultana as well, but she’s backing the wrong horse here.
 
MVBoro said:
The family especially but also the public need to know the truth. Transparency in public life is essential for any confidence in state institution. The delays in giving any information to the family is a disgrace. If it wasn’t for the public outcry and political intervention, the family would still be waiting for any kind of information. Try and put yourself in their shoes for a minut.
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I can empathise with his family, but you miss my point.

Of course there needs to be accountability, the law dictates that when the state takes a life, but my point is that many are confusing justice with prosecution.

Justice is about finding the truth, not deciding guilt before the facts are known.
 
The news media, including the BBC, do not help matters by referring to the ethnicity of the person (however obvious that is) before it has been proved to be significant.
 
Great to see the police officer has been suspended, finally moving in the right direction. You can’t just shoot an unarmed human and get away with it. It’s murder.
 
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