Latest Kantar poll - Tories 13 points ahead

BoroMart said:
It'll all close up when it comes to the next election. So many slings and arrows to use against the Tories. Corruption, theft of public money for their mates, pushing against our civil rights, failed economy, failed brexit implementation, food shortages, failed international relations, failure in afghanistan withdrawl, failure to release russia report, failure to hold russia accountable for terrorism on british soil, failure to handle the pandemic, failure in releasing infected into care homes, etc. etc. The build up to the next election will be political Armageddon as storm after storm after storm is thrown at this government. They'll be constantly fighting to defend the indefensible. It'll still probably be a hung parliament but with the tories excluded.
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I would love to think this is true but let's face we have gone through being the worst country in the world to deal with covid, we have screwed up Brexit to point whereby we don't have enough drivers to empty bins or drive buses, we have tax rises the like of which haven't been seen since the 2nd World War, heating prices are so high that people have to choose between keeping their family warm or feeding them (and that's in autumn), record number of food banks, petrol prices at their highest in over 10 years, ministers being sacked for gross incompetence etc etc amd they are still ahead in the polls.

Now tell me other than bojo killing the Queen, banning strictly and telling kids their is no such thing as santa, what else will the tories do to give Labour any chance of gaining power.

As I have said time and time again this country is f09ked
 
Pak_Doo_Ik said:
I would love to think this is true but let's face we have gone through being the worst country in the world to deal with covid, we have screwed up Brexit to point whereby we don't have enough drivers to empty bins or drive buses, we have tax rises the like of which haven't been seen since the 2nd World War, heating prices are so high that people have to choose between keeping their family warm or feeding them (and that's in autumn), record number of food banks, petrol prices at their highest in over 10 years, ministers being sacked for gross incompetence etc etc amd they are still ahead in the polls.

Now tell me other than bojo killing the Queen, banning strictly and telling kids their is no such thing as santa, what else will the tories do to give Labour any chance of gaining power.

As I have said time and time again this country is f09ked
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The collapse of the NHS. It is no longer on the brink in my experience this week, it has now collapsed. Everyone will feel it this winter. It will bring this government down. Labour better be ready, the Unions better reverse their stance on PR.
 
Lefty said:
The collapse of the NHS. It is no longer on the brink in my experience this week, it has now collapsed. Everyone will feel it this winter. It will bring this government down. Labour better be ready, the Unions better reverse their stance on PR.
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Pipe dream I'm afraid Lefty, the NHS has pretty much collapsed, have you tried seeing a GP lately, waiting times for ops are at record highs and I believe junior doctors went on strike for the first time ever a couple of years ago. Any danger of hospitals becoming overrun and lo and behold the super Nightingales will reappear.

It is no good pretending that come the glorious day of voting the country is going to suddenly come to its senses. We are stuck with this lot for at least another term unless Starmer steps up to the plate and starts destroying them now.

I may have missed it but has anybody asked the government why we have the highest covid rates in the world, why it takes nearly a year to get a routine op on the NHS, why I can't get a face to face appointment with my GP, why my garden waste bin hasn't been collected for months, why my bus didn't turn up, why I'm paying £1.50/litre for fuel, why my energy supplier has gone bust.

Sounds dreadful but I'm hoping that tories might get dragged in to a conflict in the middle East or a global economic disaster as it seems this is the only way the British people will change their attitudes to a government.
 
Chris_Boro said:
I'm not so sure the Tories would care about winning the next election, they've achieved their goals. Brexit is done (from their point of view), them and their mates are richer and would mean they don't need to own their own mess.
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The Tories ALWAYS want (and believe it is their divine right) to be in government
 
I agree the NHS has already collapsed but I know that because I have current experience and repeated experiences every few months for over a decade to judge the decline.

Most people do not, but they are about to this winter. Not the exceptional, unknown, unprecedented experience of Covid-19 of last year, but now, where everyone is whinging about masks, not wearing them, living with covid and normalising it. They are going to see the impact more than 1/5 of hospital beds being taken up with covid patients, even though the number dying is much lower, has on the everyday, routine, other, interactions they had with the nhs. They are going to see how this has dramatically changed.

The WHO recommends that the safe level a health service should operate at is 83%. Even before covid the NHS was operating at over 90%. We have one of the lowest beds per 1000 capacity in the OECD and one of the lowest doctors and nurses to patient ratio in the OECD. Already. Before covid. Before Brexit.

Twice in two days I have found my 83 year old mother lying on the floor unable to get up. My disabled, paralysed dad who she cares for, on the edge of the bed trying to see how he could help get her up, risking yet another hip break like the fall he had in September came close to giving him. They had covid about a 25 days ago, it gave my mum pneumonia and it meant I and everyone else could not visit because regulations kept carers away and I have vulnerable people at work I have to balance their health with too.

I could get no one to visit. The ambulance wait was 12 hours. Not 4 hours, not 7 hours, 12 hours. When I was in A&E in September with my dad with a suspected broken hip, I got him to A&E at 12 noon. It was 6pm before he was even looked at and 9pm by the time I got him home.

I did not call the paramedics out on Wednesday night but on the Thursday morning discovering my mum prone on the floor a second time. I needed her to be checked out in case it was more than just exhaustion or dehydration. The gp seemed like the best option since they know my mothers medical history best. I ended up being passed from gp who couldn’t come out, to 999 who couldn’t come out for at least 12 hours, to 111 and back around the block. So all I could do in the end was look after them, book an appointment to see the nurse practitioner - not a doctor - this morning and hope she would be well enough. Luckily the rest, liquids, food and tlc must have helped because I was able to get her there.

This is the level of response, care and support I can get for an elderly woman with two collapses and falls in 12 hours and with an elderly disabled husband she is the prime carer for and shouldn’t be left on his own for long. He is unable to feed himself, wash himself, dress himself or go to the toilet himself.

So imagine the care and response everyone else is about to get as covid progresses to soak up headroom and the strain increases and then flu season also comes along.

10 years ago things would have been a struggle for the NHS, but just about doable as we managed last year. This again is too much for too long and people will be exposed to it and wonder why. People aren’t dying as much so covid is over isn’t it?

Oh yeah, we have 5-7 million waiting for an operation as well.

The short termism of the Tories is going to be exposed. It needs to be.

People care about the NHS. Think about London 2012. We are proud of it. When people see how it has been left to rot, there will be a backlash and Johnson and his Party will be blamed, but people need to see an alternative with a vision. The Labour Party must step up.
 
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Lefty said:
I agree the NHS has already collapsed but I know that because I have current experience and repeated experiences every few months for over a decade to judge the decline.

Most people do not, but they are about to this winter. Not the exceptional, unknown, unprecedented experience of Covid-19, but now that everyone is whinging about masks and not wearing them, living with covid and normalising it, they are going to see that impact of more than 1/5 of hospital beds being taken up with covid patients, even though the number dying is much lower, has on the everyday routine other interactions they had with the nhs has dramatically changed.

The WHO recommends that the safe level a health service should operate at is 83%. Even before covid the NHS was operating at over 90%. We have one of the lowest beds per 1000 capacity in the OECD and one of the lowest doctors and nurses to patient ratio in the OECD. Already. Before covid. Before Brexit.

Twice in two days I have found my 83 year old mother lying on the floor unable to get up. My disabled, paralysed dad who she cares for, on the edge of the bed trying to see how he could help get her up, risking yet another hip break like the fall he had in September came close to giving him. They had covid about a 25 days ago, it gave my mum pneumonia and it meant I and everyone else could not visit because regulations kept carers away and I have vulnerable people at work I have to balance their health with too.

I could get no one to visit. The ambulance wait was 12 hours. Not 4 hours, not 7 hours, 12 hours. When I was in A&E in September with my dad with a suspected broken hip, I got him to A&E at 12 noon. It was 6pm before he was even looked at and 9pm by the time I got him home.

I did not call the paramedics out on Wednesday night but on the Thursday morning discovering my mum prone on the floor a second time I needed her to be checked out in case it was more than just exhaustion or dehydration. The gp seemed like the best option since they know my mothers medical history best. I ended up being passed from gp who couldn’t come out, to 999 who couldn’t come out for at least 12 hours, to 111 and back around the block. So all I could do in the end was look after them, book an appointment to see the nurse practitioner - not a doctor - this morning and hope she would be well enough. Luckily the rest, liquids, food and tlc must have helped because I was able to get her there.

This is the level of response, care and support I can get for an elderly woman with two collapses and falls in 12 hours and with an elderly disabled husband she is the prime carer for and shouldn’t be left on his own for long. He is unable to feed himself, wash himself, dress himself or go to the toilet himself.

So imagine the care and response everyone else is about to get as covid progresses to soak up headroom and the strain increases and then flu season also comes along.

10 years ago things would have been a struggle but just about doable as we managed last year, but this time again is too much for too long and people will be exposed to it and wonder why, since people aren’t dying as much so covid is over isn’t it?

Oh yeah, we have 5-7 million waiting for an operation as well.

The short termism of the Tories is going to be exposed. It needs to be.

People care about the NHS. Think about London 2012. We are proud of it. When people see it how it has been left to rot, there will be a backlash and Johnson and his Party will be blamed, but people need to see an alternative with a vision. The Labour Party must step up.
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Lefty I'm so sorry that's an awful situation.

It's a bit of a wake up call for me, I hadn't realised it was that bad, I knew it wasn't great but you're not wrong when you say when the population at large realise just how bad it is there will be a backlash.

I worry this might be a winter of discontent where protests become a major issue.
 
Lefty said:
Just seen Unite has voted to back PR.

Well done those behind the scenes nudging everyone along. I just hope the behind the scenes sorting out comes in time.
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PR is the best defence against extremist governments like this one, if they continue as an extremist party they will never get 50% backing to destroy the country again
 
Lefty said:
The collapse of the NHS. It is no longer on the brink in my experience this week, it has now collapsed. Everyone will feel it this winter. It will bring this government down. Labour better be ready, the Unions better reverse their stance on PR.
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Why don't the unions want PR?
 
Boris hasn't finished stage 1 of his genocide, ( Social Care Plan ) yet.

He has however replaced an incompetent 4r$hole with a complete psychopath, in Sajid Javid to speed up the attrition of poor people.

Then you have grinning assassin Patel taking back control of our borders.

Eventually the electorate will have to wake up and smell Therese Coffey. That should do it.
 
Lefty said:
Just seen Unite has voted to back PR.

Well done those behind the scenes nudging everyone along. I just hope the behind the scenes sorting out comes in time.
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That's a crappy situation to find yourself in Lefty. We often forget, when things are good for us as individuals, how rubbish life can get.
 
Thanks for the wishes. Stuff like this has been going on, on and off, for 12 years since my dads moderately severe stroke left him paralysed down one side and paralysed. I could mention the in laws were having strokes, broken hips, brain aneurisms, bowel liver and kidney cancer and dementia problems at the same time, so it was fun for a while visiting multiple hospitals and homes each day. But you kind of get used to things which compensates.

The point I was trying to make is I have been in an exceptional position to see how things have changed for patients and families in the post Blair/Brown period. When people only encounter the NHS once in a blue moon, for something minor, they don’t really appreciate what has happened. When someone only encounters the nhs once in a blue moon in an emergency situation they don’t realise that the rest of the nhs is collapsing because that service is still first class, those people at the very tip of the spear, the paramedics, the junior doctors, the nurses, in fact all the actual staff that you do encounter are still pretty damn great.

When you are there every few months in A&E for a decade you realise that you aren’t just there on a bad day and you can see the year on year decline. You encounter the immigrants who despite quite a large sector not liking them and resenting their presence, smile and look after you and your loved ones every day. You get experience of the referral system, waiting for appointments, life on other wards in the hospitals, GP’s surgeries, nursing homes, rehab, physio, social workers and social care in the home.

it wasn’t great 10 years ago but it was just about maneagble. Although there was a lottery getting in to Carter Bequest. Those who didn’t were forced to stay in James Cook putting extra burden on that. That wasn’t good enough. What was required was additional facilities like that. What happened is the Conservatives closed Carter Bequest instead to save money for tax cuts for companies and the rich.

My point is compared to many, I know what I am talking about, from considerable experience unfortunately. I haven’t brought this experience in to the debates on here that I have regularly had on here and elsewhere over the years.

So that should tell you all where we are right now.

You can’t be permanently on the brink of collapse. If you don’t do something about it, you actually collapse. If something, anything comes along, it’s going to be too much. We voted for one thing. We didn’t prepare for another despite an exercise in 2016, because we were paralysed for 5 years on one thing only, deciding what we had voted for and realising we didn’t have a plan and everything we came up with was terrible.

And then we rewarded incompetent lazy liars and put them in charge to manage this fiasco and crises.
 
Lefty said:
Thanks for the wishes. Stuff like this has been going on, on and off, for 12 years since my dads moderately severe stroke left him paralysed down one side and paralysed. I could mention the in laws were having strokes, broken hips, brain aneurisms, bowel liver and kidney cancer and dementia problems at the same time, so it was fun for a while visiting multiple hospitals and homes each day. But you kind of get used to things which compensates.

The point I was trying to make is I have been in an exceptional position to see how things have changed for patients and families in the post Blair/Brown period. When people only encounter the NHS once in a blue moon, for something minor, they don’t really appreciate what has happened. When someone only encounters the nhs once in a blue moon in an emergency situation they don’t realise that the rest of the nhs is collapsing because that service is still first class, those people at the very tip of the spear, the paramedics, the junior doctors, the nurses, in fact all the actual staff that you do encounter are still pretty damn great.

When you are there every few months in A&E for a decade you realise that you aren’t just there on a bad day and you can see the year on year decline. You encounter the immigrants who despite quite a large sector not liking them and resenting their presence, smile and look after you and your loved ones every day. You get experience of the referral system, waiting for appointments, life on other wards in the hospitals, GP’s surgeries, nursing homes, rehab, physio, social workers and social care in the home.

it wasn’t great 10 years ago but it was just about maneagble. Although there was a lottery getting in to Carter Bequest. Those who didn’t were forced to stay in James Cook putting extra burden on that. That wasn’t good enough. What was required was additional facilities like that. What happened is the Conservatives closed Carter Bequest instead to save money for tax cuts for companies and the rich.

My point is compared to many, I know what I am talking about, from considerable experience unfortunately. I haven’t brought this experience in to the debates on here that I have regularly had on here and elsewhere over the years.

So that should tell you all where we are right now.

You can’t be permanently on the brink of collapse. If you don’t do something about it, you actually collapse. If something, anything comes along, it’s going to be too much. We voted for one thing. We didn’t prepare for another despite an exercise in 2016, because we were paralysed for 5 years on one thing only, deciding what we had voted for and realising we didn’t have a plan and everything we came up with was terrible.

And then we rewarded incompetent lazy liars and put them in charge to manage this fiasco and crises.
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An excellent, well articulated post.

If its any consolation there is not a car in heels chance of a tory majority at the next general election.
 
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