Labour Party purge/staff cuts.

SuperStu

Well-known member
You've answered your own question there. What kind of a business strategy is is to cut off your main revenue stream (the membership and unions) and not have another in place? Madness.

I suppose Starmer must have been expecting they'd get big business donors that haven't come through. Although perhaps they will now, if the party's finances are in such bad shape a wealthy benefactor could probably buy themselves a lot of influence.
 

bumface

Well-known member
I suppose Starmer must have been expecting they'd get big business donors that haven't come through. Although perhaps they will now, if the party's finances are in such bad shape a wealthy benefactor could probably buy themselves a lot of influence.
Almost like the labour leader Peter Mand . . . I mean Keith Stalin has a plan, isn't it? But it doesn't seem to be working terribly well.
 

MolteniArcore

Well-known member
It's crazy.

Happy with the Tories? Keep on infighting and don't vote for Labour / Starmer.

Unhappy with the Tories? Bite your tongue, back Labour / Starmer.

And once in power see how it goes. If you are still unhappy and things are going more right wing than Johnson then maybe you guys have a point...
 

r00fie1

Well-known member
Labour MP David Coyle calls for the expulsion of [Left Wing] Jews!
Anti-semitic?!
Wheres the expulsion of Coyle and media furor?
Unless we learn the lessons of history, we are doomed to repeat them!
First they came for the Jews.......
 

SuperStu

Well-known member
It's crazy.

Happy with the Tories? Keep on infighting and don't vote for Labour / Starmer.

Unhappy with the Tories? Bite your tongue, back Labour / Starmer.

And once in power see how it goes. If you are still unhappy and things are going more right wing than Johnson then maybe you guys have a point...

The next elections already mathematically lost. At best, asking people to "bite their tongue" until Starmer's Labour have had a term in power is asking them to keep shtum until about 2034.
 

Wiseman_Vaughn

Well-known member
It's crazy.

Happy with the Tories? Keep on infighting and don't vote for Labour / Starmer.

Unhappy with the Tories? Bite your tongue, back Labour / Starmer.

And once in power see how it goes. If you are still unhappy and things are going more right wing than Johnson then maybe you guys have a point...
Unfortunately, 99.9% (over exaggeration) take a top of mind approach to politics - unlike the 0.1% on here. They want a broad picture painting before they will be convinced. I don't think KS has done that.
 

Duffman

Well-known member
Highest amount of votes for the Labour Party since Blairs first election. So that's b***ks.
Pretty much sums up the love of glorious failure and perpetual opposition- you see a cause for celebration in a huge Tory majority? I would be far happier with less of the overall vote if we could get more where it counts - historical Labour seats. Seats that we need to win an election. You can King Canute and pretend the tide isn’t drowning Labour as much as you want the fact is we remain governed by an awful ugly party and in those key Labour seats where I door knocked Jeremy Corbyn was a huge factor.
 

Duffman

Well-known member
Pretty much sums up the love of glorious failure and perpetual opposition- you see a cause for celebration in a huge Tory majority? I would be far happier with less of the overall vote if we could get more where it counts - historical Labour seats. Seats that we need to win an election. You can King Canute and pretend the tide isn’t drowning Labour as much as you want the fact is we remain governed by an awful ugly party and in those key Labour seats where I door knocked Jeremy Corbyn was a huge factor.
By the way I liked many of Corbyn’s policies - free broadband for everyone would have made a huge difference to the most disadvantaged children over the last 18 months but he was demonised by the press to a point he and the rest of us knew he was unelectable and he still went on to fight an election he knew he could not win
 

Vikster

Active member
By the way I liked many of Corbyn’s policies - free broadband for everyone would have made a huge difference to the most disadvantaged children over the last 18 months but he was demonised by the press to a point he and the rest of us knew he was unelectable and he still went on to fight an election he knew he could not win

Free broadband wouldn’t have made a jot of difference over the last 18 months… something that gets trotted out from time to time.

The election was December 2019… 3 months later we were in lockdown. It simply wouldn’t have got off the ground in time.
 

Same_as_before

Well-known member
How? What was so right?

Why did the EHRC AS report exonerate JC?

Why has the Forde Report not been released?

Why were the AS 'whistleblowers' settled with out of court against the Labour Party's lawyers advice?


And yet again we get a rewrite of history to position "the left" as the thing we don't want.

It was the FBPE Centrists that did those things. The left were busy fighting for Brexit - with Jeremy Corbyn at the forefront. Which is why the FBPE lot couldn't vote Labour at the last election.

It's amazing how the collective memory shifts to suit the prevailing narrative.
Corbyn was fighting for Brexit'? 1984 has nothing on this.

FBPE, only 0.342% of the country would know what that meant, you really need to meet real people. Go to a workies, pop in the bingo, try Benidorm or even evil of all evil McDs
 

Lefty

Well-known member
How? What was so right?

The 2019 Election result. We on the left have to stop ignoring it just because it is inconvenient. This is the pertinent outcome. It doesn't really matter about anything else. You can argue all you want about the minutiae of the Jewish issue.

I don't think Corbyn is an anti-semite personally, but some around him are so anti Israel (whose treatment of Palestinians is indeed disgraceful) that they certainly appeared so and the messaging from Corbyn fostered this, gave tacit approval and his leadership or lack of it led to many Jewish people leaving the party and many in the public to believe the Corbynites to be anti-semitic.

Technical arguments otherwise are irrelevant. The country gave it's verdict and it has resulted in an 80 seat majority for the most right wing, ideological, incompetent, government in UK history. That is the reality. It is fact. Stop denying reality and face it.

The left need to understand the mindset of the country.

Labour never wins when it is divided. Look at the record. Look at how we lose and how we win.

Ramsey MacDonald managed to get elected PM, but then the Left of the party decided he wasn't left enough and couldn't countenance working with other parties in a National Government during the Great Depression. Labour went from a 288 seats (to the Tories 260) minority government (with the support of Lloyd Georges liberals) to MacDonald winning the largest ever mandate from a British PM with 554 seats. Unfortunately 473 of those were Conservatives, 68 Liberals and just 13 National Labour. The Labour Party under Arthur Henderson won just 52 seats. The country wanted unity and moderate, centrist policies.

If the Left want to point to Atlee, they must remember the context of Atlee's win. He won the 1945 election with what was for the time a progressive programme, but it largely followed the Beveridge report (who was actually a Liberal), it followed the most momentous event in history, after every single serviceman had been sent the Beveridge Report by the M.O.D and spent two years digesting it, discussing it and dreaming about it in their foxholes, bunks and messes. It became the reason they were fighting, that better future, not for empire or to defeat Nazism. Labour were going to implement it. Churchill wasn't.

Then we had the post Atlee period when Labour were riven between the Gaitskillites and the Bevanites and were out of power from 1951 until Wilson brought everyone together again with a more centrist compromise. Wilson was elected PM twice.

Next, when Labour went down the Michael Foot route on the left, the country rejected them. In fact Kinnock had to spend years fighting to oust Militant to get the party electable again. He narrowly failed in 1992, largely because of Major's personal appeal as a moderate to the nation.

Step in Blair. Three times centrist Blair was elected and he did a hell of a lot more for workers, the NHS and Education than Thatcher before or Cameron, May and Johnson since.

There has been a lot of talk in the last 5 years about respecting democracy, largely disingenuous guff from brexit supporting pseudo democrats, who either had no intention of delivering the promises on which the votes were cast, or were so monumentally arrogant and stupid they didn't understand they couldn't.

The population of this country is by and large moderate, conservative with a small c. Even Marx knew that. You know what, veering between centre left and centre right is not a bad thing. The Left need to understand that sometimes the Right are right about some things and sometimes the Left are wrong.

Also, it is fundamentally undemocratic to achieve power promising certain things and then use that mandate to deliver something else, as Milne and co. tried to do. We can see this with Brexit. We can see how the bluekip take over of the Conservatives has turned them into a very different beast, with the purge of moderates throughout the party. We've also seen huge push back by the country as a whole on their more ideologically driven policies and decisions and what we are also seeing is grassroots progressive alliances and tactical voting, leading where Labour refuse.

Labour need to take a leaf out of the Tories book. The Conservatives are ideologically driven, but their main driver is staying in power, so they will adapt and move to the left when they are in danger of losing power, just enough to retain it. What they understand is that they will always oppose the Left, whether in opposition or government, but you can oppose it a lot more effectively in government than when you are not in power.
 

Scrote

Well-known member
Corbyn was fighting for Brexit'? 1984 has nothing on this.

FBPE, only 0.342% of the country would know what that meant, you really need to meet real people. Go to a workies, pop in the bingo, try Benidorm or even evil of all evil McDs
It was meant as sarcasm.

Corbyn was accused of being both pro & anti brexit by people looking for an excuse not to vote Labour. They are contradictory positions. One can't be true.

It's become a joke - if you don't want a fairer society then just vote Tory or Lib Dem/Green.

If you want to be a racist - just vote Tory or UKIP/BNP etc.

Stop making excuses that you then dismiss when other people use the same argument from a different viewpoint.

People couldn't vote for Labour under Corbyn = GOOD

People can't vote for Labout under Starmer = BAD

If the reason we should all vote Labour under Starmer is to get the Tories out why didn't people vote Labour under Corbyn to get the Tories out. Why do the rules change?
 
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Scrote

Well-known member
Also, it is fundamentally undemocratic to achieve power promising certain things and then use that mandate to deliver something else, as Milne and co. tried to do.
What did Milne and co try to do?

Examples, with sources, would be a start.

The only real stupidity I remember from Corbyn's team was the Women's Pension payments and national Broadband rollout being added to the manifesto promises during the election process.

Both were sound (and fair) policies. It was more a timing issue.
 

bear66

Well-known member
What did Milne and co try to do?

Examples, with sources, would be a start.

The only real stupidity I remember from Corbyn's team was the Women's Pension payments and national Broadband rollout being added to the manifesto promises during the election process.

Both were sound (and fair) policies. It was more a timing issue.
Both fair and sensible for a developed society, but adding them post-manifesto was silly.
 

Lefty

Well-known member
So why are you not bothered about the Labour right dividing it?

Are you happy with Mandelson et al ruling the roost?

Because the Labour 'Right' are still centre left and not out of step with the electorate.

The Left are too toxic for a majority to vote for them.

What's more they are too ideologically driven, just as the Tory Right are.

Houchen's appeal for instance is that he is prepared to put ideology to one side if it doesn't work. This is exactly what Labour should be doing and it is exactly the right approach to government.

You can have a left leaning or right leaning ideology as a basis for lots of policies, but this mustn't trump evidence based empiricism.
 

Lefty

Well-known member
What did Milne and co try to do?

Examples, with sources, would be a start.

The only real stupidity I remember from Corbyn's team was the Women's Pension payments and national Broadband rollout being added to the manifesto promises during the election process.

Both were sound (and fair) policies. It was more a timing issue.

 
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