Just Seen the Covid 2nd Wave Projections

I've been indoors for 10 weeks, no walks, no shops, no outside (other than garden), I'm bored out of my mind.

Seeing the graphs going down was getting me through, seeing people largely staying at home and obeying lockdown brought hope.

All I see now is people taking the pi$$, bbq's yesterday with 10+ people, groups of young lads walking down my road with their tops off with no care in the world, beaches full of littering idiots.

So do please keep dismissing the point of the lockdown. I'll have plenty of time to think about it when I have to spend another 3 months at home with no income. Unfortunately the 60k or so people who have died wont have that luxary.
 
Lockdown is pretty much completely over here now. Everything seems normal. Coincidentally the death rate is going back up.
 
SmallTown said:
Lockdown is pretty much completely over here now. Everything seems normal. Coincidentally the death rate is going back up.
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Unfortunately seeing as many of the great and the good on the top table have had it and hope they have some immunity it’ll be all systems go as they assume they’ll be safe enough for now, back to creating wealth at the expense of a few thousand more sacrificial lambs. No doubt It’ll be their own fault for not staying alert.
 
SmallTown said:
Lockdown is pretty much completely over here now. Everything seems normal. Coincidentally the death rate is going back up.
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Would love a source for that..
You know there will be a small spike following lockdown lifting followed by going back down if other countries go back down
 
Chris_Boro said:
I've been indoors for 10 weeks, no walks, no shops, no outside (other than garden), I'm bored out of my mind.

Seeing the graphs going down was getting me through, seeing people largely staying at home and obeying lockdown brought hope.

All I see now is people taking the pi$$, bbq's yesterday with 10+ people, groups of young lads walking down my road with their tops off with no care in the world, beaches full of littering idiots.

So do please keep dismissing the point of the lockdown. I'll have plenty of time to think about it when I have to spend another 3 months at home with no income. Unfortunately the 60k or so people who have died wont have that luxary.
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And therein lies the problem Chris.
Us "lockdown lovers" are no such thing, instead we're actually wanting to just mitigate the actions of government, the irresponsible and the ones who don't believe themselves to be at any great risk while we at the same time understand that the economy needs to restart.
Had the government acted earlier then this lockdown would have saved lives. Had the lockdown been stricter when it was finally enacted then it would have saved lives. Having it enacted late and to limited extent hasn't had the desired results at all and it has done little to protect the vulnerable.
Rushing to restart the economy now when we are still seeing deaths in the hundreds every day indicates that infection vectors are still rife and will just allow the infections to occur unabated unless those going back to work are not only going into workplaces that are as safe as possible, but also that they are painfully aware of their responsibility to stop infections. I know that I am responsible, but then again at 55 I am in far more potential danger than many and so I am extremely careful. I can't guarantee the actions of anyone but myself and therefore the actions of others will affect me whatever I do.
 
Infections have still been spreading regardless of the lockdown measures though correct?
Didn't have the same lockdown measures as Spain or Italy or France and I can't see how we could have done when you take into account a variety of factors like culture, funding for police and military, food provision, population density etc.
The government's measures with the exception of the various funding streams available to people have all been failures. My conscious is clear because I never voted for the Tories because I could see how clueless Boris would be as a prime minister, Brexit will be no different and cause its own wave of deaths and misery. That's why the arguments between those who are for the lockdown those who aren't fussed either way and those who want to go back to life will not find an agreed answer between them.

The death toll is tragic however people add it up, but the government and the media are using death as a political weapon to turn people against one another and it doesn't sit right.
 
RandySavage said:
Infections have still been spreading regardless of the lockdown measures though correct?
Didn't have the same lockdown measures as Spain or Italy or France and I can't see how we could have done when you take into account a variety of factors like culture, funding for police and military, food provision, population density etc.
The government's measures with the exception of the various funding streams available to people have all been failures. My conscious is clear because I never voted for the Tories because I could see how clueless Boris would be as a prime minister, Brexit will be no different and cause its own wave of deaths and misery. That's why the arguments between those who are for the lockdown those who aren't fussed either way and those who want to go back to life will not find an agreed answer between them.

The death toll is tragic however people add it up, but the government and the media are using death as a political weapon to turn people against one another and it doesn't sit right.
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Real life
"I don't want him to be a statistic"
 
The science behind lockdown is and was sound, it was working. Political choices diluted that science and now has completely undermined it.

The past 10 weeks would be rendered utterly pointless if we end up back to square one, with more people dying and the economy strangled.
 
Alvez_48 said:
I should state that furlough is costing the public purse 15 billion a month (or half the UK's defence budget) so the only thing that is stopping mass collapse is the same thing that's going to cause mass collapse.
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Not a dig at you personally Alvez (honest) but I've heard a few people mention the cost in the context of what we spend on defence or the NHS, and they're not really fair comparisons. These are the sort of comparisions that right-wing governments make when they want to justify austerity programmes.

The fulough scheme is basically a proxy welfare scheme, so we should compare it with the annual welfare bill. This is £264bn per annum or £22bn per month.

Also, you need to remember that recipients of the furlough scheme still make tax and NI contributions on their payments. Difficult to estimate precisely but, if the average furlough payment is £1,785 per month, a rough estimate for tax and NI deductions would be £300 per month, or £2.5bn for all 8.4m recipients. This reduces the cost of the furlough scheme to £12.5bn per month.

Additionally, to make a fair comparison, we need to examine what would happen if the furlough scheme wasn't in place. You'd make 8.4m instantaneously unemployed, who would all be entitled to claim Universal Credit. The mean average UC payment is £670 per month which, multiplied by 8.4m people, would come to £5.6bn per month. Therefore, even if your figures are correct (which I haven't checked), that brings the net cost of the furlough scheme down to £6.9bn per month.

So, compared with the existing welfare system, the furlough scheme is costing less than a third extra. If it wasn't in existence, the 8.4m recipients would all have been entitled to other welfare payments, plus redundancy payments from their employers, which thousands of small and medium sized companies probably couldn't have afforded, sending them into insolvency.

I'll give credit where it is due and admit that this has been a positive and long-sighted intervention by the government. We obviously can't afford to keep it going forever, but as a relatively short-term measure it makes both moral and economic sense.
 
Alvez_48 said:
No it's utterly terrible but sadly young people die all the time of a vast variety of ailments and accidents.
It's about proportionality, if 1 in every 1,000,000 35 year olds die of something you do not stop all activity for the other 35 year olds.
You just want to make it an emotional argument which is understandable as rationally it has no footing.
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What I want is for people to live, don't really care about how we do that but that should be the primary goal and it hasn't been.
 
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