Johnson To Take Direct Control

Johnson's a complete buffoon and not worth a vote despite plenty on hear voting for him.
I do wonder what would Starmer have done differently? Let's take a trip to imagination land and pretend not JC but Starmer was standing in December and had took a small majority.
Would he have locked down earlier having just won an election and risk being called a dictator? Would he have locked down care homes and attempted to keep staff in the care homes for weeks in an effort to stave off the care home impact?
Would he have immediately suspended travel from China and Europe and then the states?

I find it very difficult to believe he would. Some of you seem to think it would have been better, if so he would have had to enact all of the above policy in hindsight.

I could believe much better PPE provisioning and support and I'm sure he would try to get more tests but they were sought across the globe and were very inaccurate to start with (probably still are) and with the number of asymptomatic cases of limited use initially in stopping spread.

That said just like the financial crash wasn't labours fault but they still take the blame, this pandemic isn't really the Tories fault but they will take the blame and I'm fine with that, they won't ever get my vote and never have.
 
Alvez I posted recently about what should have happened, regardless of poularity or ideology. Some of it required hindsight most of it did not. It is very easy to point to government mistakes that had nothing to do with hindsight, so yes someone else would have done a better job, almost certainly.
 
Laughing said:
Alvez I posted recently about what should have happened, regardless of poularity or ideology. Some of it required hindsight most of it did not. It is very easy to point to government mistakes that had nothing to do with hindsight, so yes someone else would have done a better job, almost certainly.
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Fair enough.. there were that month or so of complete inaction so there's definitely a window of different result.

For me the big 3 things that could have resulted in lower deaths are (please note I do not necessarily agree with them).

1. Lockdown super early stringently after the first case for 3 weeks.
2. Simultaneously (and it would have to simultaneous) stop all inbound travel from any nations.
3.hard lockdown of care homes .. no-one in or out.

Would you agree with those? I wouldn't think Starmer or any Labour leader (as much as it hurts me to say this) certainly not JC would have done that.
 
The care home idea would never work on practice. Even of it was heavily financially rewarded. Many have families at home, some even single parents. If you were to expect care workers to stay locked down at their place of work you would need to lock down hospital workers at hospitals for the same reasons.
 
Alvez :
1. Yes, we had some notification from central europe as to what was happening and should have moved quicker, how quickly is difficult to say in terms of us using hindsight now.
2. Yes, we should have taken advantage of our island status
3. This is a tricky one, without adequate testing it is very difficult to allow staff to go home, and we had no testing at all. It wouldn't sit well with families either, until the scale of the issue became clear. Also at what point did we know the massive increase in risk to the elderly. We should certainly ahve done better on care homes, and acted much sooner than we actually did, and we should not have allowed people back into care homes from hospitals without a test.

I did mention that I wouldn't have cared about popularity, I would have done what I thought was right, and if, after the fact, I was finished in politics, so be it, I could at least sleep at night knowing I had done everything in my power to save as many people as I could.
 
1finny said:
It’s politics
The phrase ‘proud of the government’s record’ was used. Some will hear and believe it.
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Spot on. It's got Cummings paws all over it that one. As I think we've already seen expect it to be repeated by various ministers ad nauseum over the coming weeks, possibly months regardless of how relevant it is to a question or how ludicrous it sounds.
 
Alvez_48 said:
Johnson's a complete buffoon and not worth a vote despite plenty on hear voting for him.
I do wonder what would Starmer have done differently? Let's take a trip to imagination land and pretend not JC but Starmer was standing in December and had took a small majority.
Would he have locked down earlier having just won an election and risk being called a dictator? Would he have locked down care homes and attempted to keep staff in the care homes for weeks in an effort to stave off the care home impact?
Would he have immediately suspended travel from China and Europe and then the states?

I find it very difficult to believe he would. Some of you seem to think it would have been better, if so he would have had to enact all of the above policy in hindsight.

I could believe much better PPE provisioning and support and I'm sure he would try to get more tests but they were sought across the globe and were very inaccurate to start with (probably still are) and with the number of asymptomatic cases of limited use initially in stopping spread.

That said just like the financial crash wasn't labours fault but they still take the blame, this pandemic isn't really the Tories fault but they will take the blame and I'm fine with that, they won't ever get my vote and never have.
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Unusually balanced political post for social media! I agree with most of what you have said, but Starmer just strikes me as being competent, he achieved a high powered job on merit. Johnson on the other hand doesn't and hasn't. I think the difference would have been we would have been more in line with the EU and so are outcome response might be more France/Spain than USA. Having said that being pro EU would probably have lost Starmer the election in December, not as disastrously as Corbyn, but still a loss!
 
Laughing said:
Alvez :
1. Yes, we had some notification from central europe as to what was happening and should have moved quicker, how quickly is difficult to say in terms of us using hindsight now.
2. Yes, we should have taken advantage of our island status
3. This is a tricky one, without adequate testing it is very difficult to allow staff to go home, and we had no testing at all. It wouldn't sit well with families either, until the scale of the issue became clear. Also at what point did we know the massive increase in risk to the elderly. We should certainly ahve done better on care homes, and acted much sooner than we actually did, and we should not have allowed people back into care homes from hospitals without a test.

I did mention that I wouldn't have cared about popularity, I would have done what I thought was right, and if, after the fact, I was finished in politics, so be it, I could at least sleep at night knowing I had done everything in my power to save as many people as I could.
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Oh right you were speaking for yourself well you'd have some serious stones to do it and I don't doubt you so good for you sir. 👍🏻
 
Alvez_48 said:
Oh right you were speaking for yourself well you'd have some serious stones to do it and I don't doubt you so good for you sir. 👍🏻
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Alvez in the original post I made the point that Johnson had an opportunity to be a UK great. I would like to think that most PM's would have done the right thing and ignored the popular thing.

I still cannot find any good numbers for comparing deaths from differring causes. It would have been really interesting, based on some of your arguments, to see how, for example suicides over the last 3 months compare with the last 5 years, also cancer would have been interesting, as elective surgeries and treatments were cancelled. It would be really interesting to see some numbers.

It looks like those breakdowns just are not available. Your adamancy piqued my curiosity, but it is so difficult to find numbers to start to make comparisons.
 
RandySavage said:
It's ok he'll be off to chequers soon. The road outside downing street looks like a tinderbox ready to go off.
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Just has, attacking police on mass definitely nothing to to do with lockdown or deprivation though.. all to do with George Floyd. 😐
 
Laughing said:
whats going on outside downing street, Randy?
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The protesters from Hyde Park have moved to whatever the road is called outside of Downing Street. Open sporadic clashes with police, reports say a policeman has been punched already.
I'm afraid the same elements of the protests that are happening on America, genuine protesters, those who are disenfranchised with the government and criminal gangs, will kick off in London tonight. Met police already said today they didn't want to break up the Hyde Park protest incase it set something off.

Seems protesting in massive groups of people is absolutely fine but having a beer in my neighbours house would see me flogged on Facebook and locked up by the po po.
 
Laughing said:
Just seen the pictures, our world beating track and trace team are gonna be busy tomorrow.
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All this is going to take is one overreaction from a police officer and it will go off big time. Coronavirus will be the least of these people's worries.
 
Randy, I think that our police are by and large well trained and tend not to overreact. They are trained to talk down to you, not mace you.
 
No Randy they are not. The telegraph had a picture of the policeman getting "punched" in the face., I think it was by a woman. I feel ashamed, but I did titter a bit.
 
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