It’s not just about Black people being murdered

[atypical_boro]

As much as the video shouldn't be used as condemning evidence one way or another, and there may be a bit more to the story, its a pretty good example of when black people feel as though they've committed a crime purely for being black.

I mean, who knows, maybe the birdwatcher in Central Park threatened to stab Amy Cooper right before he started filming?

 

[Heam44]

Why not? Stats and the experience of thousands of BAME people prove it's an everyday occurrence.

I would imagine it’s more likely due to BAME people being more likely to live in poorer areas, which are of course higher crime areas where you are more likely to be asked to provide your details if you are doing something which may be interpreted as being potentially suspicious.

Also, based on my own experience (working in Bradford) I think there may be cultural reasons why BAME people are asked to provide their details more often than whites, eg- we will often notice a people sat in a car in the early hours somewhere unusual eg a supermarket car park. When we ask what they are upto, it’s often a case of the occupants being in a relationship but their family’s don’t know or don’t approve.

 

[Redwurzel]

There are lots of prejudices in British society including racism and discrimination, I want to eradicate them all.

 

[Facefuzz]

The way things are escalating you won’t have to worry about british society because it will be gone. We need to step back, take stock and have some meaningful debate. Not criminal damage, not riots, not public order, not assaulting the police.

 

[Jonny Ingbar]

Why not? Stats and the experience of thousands of BAME people prove it's an everyday occurrence.

It is, and where that is true then it is absolutely unacceptable and should be tackled head on.

But its not always that simple either and making it so is dangerous and counter productive. For example, Operation Trident, the (I would strongly argue legitimate) MPS piece that seeks to reduce black on black gang violence, would not exist if this agenda were followed. Equally, knife crime in London has risen hugely since the stop search powers have been made so restrictive that they are almost meaningless - there are both a disproportionate number of black victims and perpetrators and equally a disproportionate number subject to stop searches.

I'm not suggesting this absolutely justifies the statistics, only that the debate is more complex than the simplification that some people believe.

 

[HarryVegas]

It is, and where that is true then it is absolutely unacceptable and should be tackled head on.

But its not always that simple either and making it so is dangerous and counter productive. For example, Operation Trident, the (I would strongly argue legitimate) MPS piece that seeks to reduce black on black gang violence, would not exist if this agenda were followed. Equally, knife crime in London has risen hugely since the stop search powers have been made so restrictive that they are almost meaningless - there are both a disproportionate number of black victims and perpetrators and equally a disproportionate number subject to stop searches.

I'm not suggesting this absolutely justifies the statistics, only that the debate is more complex than the simplification that some people believe.

It is a complex debate, I agree - definitely one the nation needs to have, but from an open and non-defensive point of view. We need to be open-minded enough to look at facts & figures in depth and listen to people's experiences without saying "Ah yes, but..." (y)

There are also obvious problems like social deprivation which, by its very nature, tends to be concentrated around 'hotspots', for want of a better word, and this desperately needs addressing, because it affects everything - results at school, young people's ambitions, their behaviour - everything.

The deliberate government policy of forcing financially struggling people to struggle even more is not only mean spirited, but counter-productive too. In a society in which people from BAME groups are already unfairly and illegally discriminated against, then being poorer than everyone else as well is bound to create tensions and resentment. If you don't consider yourself as being part of society, then sooner or later you are likely to choose to live outside its laws and conventions.

I think all the above is fairly obvious stuff really but we need to look together as a nation at how we can do better. Sadly, on some/most days I don't think we will or can do it. Everything would need to change, including government and the poisonous behaviour of our print media, whose awfulness filters into how so many people view the world around them. I don't see either of those things happening anytime soon, but I live in hope.

 

[Facefuzz]

It is a complex debate, I agree - definitely one the nation needs to have, but from an open and non-defensive point of view. We need to be open-minded enough to look at facts & figures in depth and listen to people's experiences without saying "Ah yes, but..." (y)

There are also obvious problems like social deprivation which, by its very nature, tends to be concentrated around 'hotspots', for want of a better word, and this desperately needs addressing, because it affects everything - results at school, young people's ambitions, their behaviour - everything.

The deliberate government policy of forcing financially struggling people to struggle even more is not only mean spirited, but counter-productive too. In a society in which people from BAME groups is already unfairly and illegally discriminated against, then being poorer than everyone else as well is bound to create tensions and resentment. If you don't consider yourself as being part of society, then sooner or later you are likely to choose to live outside its laws and conventions.

I think all the above is fairly obvious stuff really but we need to look together as a nation at how we can do better. Sadly, on some/most days I don't think we will or can do it. Everything would need to change, including government and the poisonous behaviour of our print media, whose awfulness filters into how so many people view the world around them. I don't see either of those things happening anytime soon, but I live in hope.

I think the media are filtering this whole issue and stirring up a frenzy. They’re encouraging lawless behaviour and angering those in the middle who have no prejudice. They love it and they are scum.

 

[HarryVegas]

I think the media are filtering this whole issue and stirring up a frenzy. They’re encouraging lawless behaviour and angering those in the middle who have no prejudice. They love it and they are scum.

If you look at their daily headlines over recent years, it has all been about demonising anyone perceived to be 'the other' - really obvious and cliched s**t about foreign people 'swarming' over here, getting loads of benefits, forcing the UK to rename Christmas etc. Just dumb crap that I never thought people would swallow. But they did and here we are.

 

[Priv]

My brothers army mate who is black used to come and stay with us when on leave. Twice he was pulled over and had his car searched. This was in Redcar. I don't know anyone who has been stopped and had whole car searched and I've lived here all my life. That showed me that there is definetley racial prejudice in the police.

I’ve been pulled over in Redcar a few times, each time I’ve been asked if they could have a look In my car I and with nothing to hide I agreed and there were no issues . I personally think it’s because I’m a big lad who goes to the gym a fair bit and has tattoos, though can’t be certain. I’m not saying him getting pulled over wasn’t due to racial profiling only that they do pull over white people as well.

 

[Facefuzz]

If you look at their daily headlines over recent years, it has all been about demonising anyone perceived to be 'the other' - really obvious and cliched s**t about foreign people 'swarming' over here, getting loads of benefits, forcing the UK to rename Christmas etc. Just dumb crap that I never thought people would swallow. But they did and here we are.

the language used is inflammatory at the very least. Today’s example calling statues being on a ‘hit list‘ like there’s some sort of war or assassination.

 

[BoroMart]

Did someone write that? Immunity for the police!!!!!!

Well police immunity has worked so well in america, maybe we should give it a go

 

[BoroMart]

the language used is inflammatory at the very least. Today’s example calling statues being on a ‘hit list‘ like there’s some sort of war or assassination.

It is a war. It is a war caused by the libertarian elite like Farage, Cummings and Johnson, against the poor. They're petrified that all the poor will work out who the real enemy is, so have stoked a culture war. This was design not accident and has been going for at least 5 years.

The current battle in this war, is patriotism vs liberalism. In reality it's a false flag battle, pitting poor patriots trying to stop the country getting worse against poor liberals trying to make the place better. It's divide and conquer, because what this far right set of Tories fear more than anything is those poor people working together and attacking their wealth gathering opportunities.

Trump has done exactly the same playing poor patriots and poor liberals against each other. I'm pretty sure Hitler used the same tactics too, although he wasn't libertarian.

 

[br14]

My son used to be stopped all the time in our town. He's white. We think the reason is that his car was the same model and colour as a local drug dealer. One time I was following my son a couple of cars behind when he was stopped. I got out of the car and asked the officer politely why my son had been stopped, and the cop couldn't answer - I assume because he didn't have "just cause". In the end he just walked away.

There's little doubt being stopped by police is an issue for young black men. I have family friends who've been stopped - and they're not even that dark skinned. But they're far from the only people to be stopped. The problem is far more complex than "racist policemen". These days I doubt you'd get through an interview as a police officer if you showed any signs of being racist. And if you did, the sensitivity training would soon sort you out. Racial profiling is certainly a factor but we should try spreading our nets a little wider to identify other potential causes rather than jumping to unpleasant conclusions.

 

[br14]

poor liberals trying to make the place better

By pulling down statues perhaps?

What is left and right? You can't call Johnson a social conservative. He's in favour of same sex marriage and a host of socially liberal views. He's even living in Number 10 out of wedlock with an illegitimate child (doesn't that sound odd these days). And he's far from fiscally conservative either. He's spending a fortune on welfare for the entire country and is promising to outspend Labour on the NHS. He's even in favour of mass immigration (though he knows he has to look like he's addressing the issue for his base). He did commit the mortal sin of supporting Brexit - so score one on that point. Though one of the most socialist MP's - Tony Benn - in British history would have been right behind him.

So what is left and right these days? Damn sure I have no idea.

 

[BoroMart]

By pulling down statues perhaps?

What is left and right? You can't call Johnson a social conservative. He's in favour of same sex marriage and a host of socially liberal views. He's even living in Number 10 out of wedlock with an illegitimate child (doesn't that sound odd these days). And he's far from fiscally conservative either. He's spending a fortune on welfare for the entire country and is promising to outspend Labour on the NHS. He's even in favour of mass immigration (though he knows he has to look like he's addressing the issue for his base). He did commit the mortal sin of supporting Brexit - so score one on that point. Though one of the most socialist MP's - Tony Benn - in British history would have been right behind him.

So what is left and right these days? Damn sure I have no idea.

A handful of people pulled down one statue, that isn't the consensus of all people, and most people in the movement do not expect statues of Churchill et al to be pulled down. I wouldn't be surprised if 'the list' of targeted statues was actually published by right wing agitators, yet again weaponising patriotism. It's what they do.

If you don't understand the general thought processes of left and right, google it. Put in simple terms Johnson is a libertarian, he's in it for himself and himself only, he doesn't really care about the good of the country, prosperity for others, his sights are aimed where they always have been, on whatever he can personally see gain from is his policy. A brief look through his flip-flopping career should make this obvious.

So is your point that liberals, as a generalism are not trying to make the country better for all? There are extremists that do some ill advised things. But the idea that we shouldn't be idolising racist slavers is something that has merit and is important in ensuring a better future free of racism.