I have truly mixed feelings over derby...

Really does hit the nail on the head doesn't it?
No it doesn't.

Mel Morris has burned his own house down and wants Gibson to save him without even an admittance of his own guilt. It's rediculous. Gibson owes Derby nothing, but he owes Boro fans by ensuring our club don't get rolled over by cheats.

Morris however owes Derby fans, he was custodian of their club and ruined it, and rather than helping to fix it before walking away, he has taken the nuclear option of threatening the clubs existence.

The above hits the nail on the head, not a tabloid Sun reporter who can't even mention Mel Morris's name in this saga, complete joke
 
@BoroMart I want to apologise. From my perspective any micro aggressions or passive agression was coming from your side but it is entirely possible that I misinterpreted or misunderstood. I have reviewed my responses to you and whilst from my perspective they were not as you described them and certainly not intended in the way you took them, I can see why you did. I accept that was responding with my back up because of the way I (perhaps incorrectly) interpreted your posts. So for my part in that I apologise. I feel certain I am blocked but nevertheless!
 
Simon Jordan trashing the Administrators on Talksport this morning ..

He KNOWS Gibbo is speaking to two bidders in isolation to the Administrators .. The compo claim is NOT holding up the sale of the club .. Andy Hoskins - the Administator is misrepresenting the facts .. the stumbling block is MSD ..

This is the live stream .. speaking about Derby / Boro from about a hour in .. Studio time 11:22

 
Last edited:
@BoroMart I want to apologise. From my perspective any micro aggressions or passive agression was coming from your side but it is entirely possible that I misinterpreted or misunderstood. I have reviewed my responses to you and whilst from my perspective they were not as you described them and certainly not intended in the way you took them, I can see why you did. I accept that was responding with my back up because of the way I (perhaps incorrectly) interpreted your posts. So for my part in that I apologise. I feel certain I am blocked but nevertheless!
FYI BoroMart - to get past the blocker because you need to see this.
 
This is the best article I've seen on the subject, and perfectly explains the opinion as supported by Adis points that the claims are spurious, and more importantly why we come out of all this so bad.

Of course Middlesbrough and Wycombe are also emboldened in their mission to prove a football club is not responsible for its results or league position by the precedent set when Sheffield United sued West Ham.

Lord Griffiths ruled that Sheffield United did not go down because they scored fewer goals away from home, or lost more away games than any other team in the Premier League in 2006-07, and they didn’t go down because they failed to avoid defeat by Wigan on the final day of the season.

Winning just two games before November 28 was incidental as was a run of two wins, two draws and seven defeats in their last 11 matches, eight points from 33. No, Griffiths decided, Sheffield United were relegated because West Ham hid paperwork regarding Carlos Tevez. West Ham paid compensation of £10m, which Sheffield United invested wisely on falling through another division.

So here we are. One imagines football knows Griffiths made a rogue decision because in 14 years nobody has sought to use its precedent. Until now.
Samuel's just a West Ham fan still bitter about having to pay out to Sheffield United after West Ham cheated to avoid relegation.
 
An interesting quote "Derby's administrators said in a statement on Thursday: "There have been some player exits but our position has always been that we would like to maintain the integrity and quality of the squad as best we can. That is still our intention."" I think that SG must be concerned that DCFC will come out of this, even under new owners, smelling of roses and ready to push on.
 
An interesting quote "Derby's administrators said in a statement on Thursday: "There have been some player exits but our position has always been that we would like to maintain the integrity and quality of the squad as best we can. That is still our intention."" I think that SG must be concerned that DCFC will come out of this, even under new owners, smelling of roses and ready to push on.
Debt free, rich new owners, ground back under their ownership and could even still be in the Championship.
 
An interesting quote "Derby's administrators said in a statement on Thursday: "There have been some player exits but our position has always been that we would like to maintain the integrity and quality of the squad as best we can. That is still our intention."" I think that SG must be concerned that DCFC will come out of this, even under new owners, smelling of roses and ready to push on.
I think that absolutely nails SG's mindset in all of this. He clearly has in his mind what he see's as a suitable punishment; namely relegation with a depleted squad and a struggle to re-establish themselves into the Championship as he been seen with so many other clubs, Sunderland, Bolton, Pompey to name but a few. To be fair I think he has a valid point as what message does it give to other potential unscrupulous owners who may want to chance their arm and only suffer what may result in a slap on the wrist and a nice strong base to compete from.
 
Simon Jordan trashing the Administrators on Talksport this morning ..

He KNOWS Gibbo is speaking to two bidders in isolation to the Administrators .. The compo claim is NOT holding up the sale of the club .. Andy Hoskins - the Administator is misrepresenting the facts .. the stumbling block is MSD ..

This is the live stream .. speaking about Derby / Boro from about a hour in .. Studio time 11:22

well there we have it, Gibson and Ashley have come to agreements, we aren't holding a foot on Derby's neck. The issue is the stadium, Michael Dell, and Mel Morris.

Reading between the lines and what's being rumoured, Dell have loans to Derby which Mel is guarantor for he wants that guarantorship to be transferred to Ashley. Dell have loaned more money to Derby, but guarenteed against the Stadium. Morris wants to sell the stadium to the new owner ideally, and the guarenteeship of the latest loan to be transferred with it.

Mel wants to get out completely and not have any debt to any company that loaned money, he also wants money for the stadium and to sell Derby for cash. He wants to minimise his losses. Ashley is expected to pay for derby, pay for the stadium (we'll get on to that) and and take on the debts to Dell. If he pays 40 for the stadium, 40 for derby and takes on the debt, that's probably 120mill...for a club that will still have potential ffp issues, a mortgage on the training ground, no liquid assets and few playing assets.

Yes the club has potential, but it's a long way back from this financial mess, how much does Ashley really want this?
 
well there we have it, Gibson and Ashley have come to agreements, we aren't holding a foot on Derby's neck. The issue is the stadium, Michael Dell, and Mel Morris.

Reading between the lines and what's being rumoured, Dell have loans to Derby which Mel is guarantor for he wants that guarantorship to be transferred to Ashley. Dell have loaned more money to Derby, but guarenteed against the Stadium. Morris wants to sell the stadium to the new owner ideally, and the guarenteeship of the latest loan to be transferred with it.

Mel wants to get out completely and not have any debt to any company that loaned money, he also wants money for the stadium and to sell Derby for cash. He wants to minimise his losses. Ashley is expected to pay for derby, pay for the stadium (we'll get on to that) and and take on the debts to Dell. If he pays 40 for the stadium, 40 for derby and takes on the debt, that's probably 120mill...for a club that will still have potential ffp issues, a mortgage on the training ground, no liquid assets and few playing assets.

Yes the club has potential, but it's a long way back from this financial mess, how much does Ashley really want this?
His offer/deal is for £50 million isn't it?

But with no stadium obviously.
 
well there we have it, Gibson and Ashley have come to agreements, we aren't holding a foot on Derby's neck. The issue is the stadium, Michael Dell, and Mel Morris.

Reading between the lines and what's being rumoured, Dell have loans to Derby which Mel is guarantor for he wants that guarantorship to be transferred to Ashley. Dell have loaned more money to Derby, but guarenteed against the Stadium. Morris wants to sell the stadium to the new owner ideally, and the guarenteeship of the latest loan to be transferred with it.

Mel wants to get out completely and not have any debt to any company that loaned money, he also wants money for the stadium and to sell Derby for cash. He wants to minimise his losses. Ashley is expected to pay for derby, pay for the stadium (we'll get on to that) and and take on the debts to Dell. If he pays 40 for the stadium, 40 for derby and takes on the debt, that's probably 120mill...for a club that will still have potential ffp issues, a mortgage on the training ground, no liquid assets and few playing assets.

Yes the club has potential, but it's a long way back from this financial mess, how much does Ashley really want this?
This logic has been clear from the outset.
Gibson wants Morris to salvage as little out of this as possible and that is personal.
Gibson wants Ashley, or a new owner to have to pay for what Morris won't and that is good business not to strengthen an opponent.
His only leverage has been his claim and the process he has followed.
I think he is absolutely spot on.

Pay up Morris; or pay for Morris, Ashley.
 
It’s interesting that Gibson and Simon Jordan are in contact with each other over this. Didn’t have them down as mates.
I wouldn't think they are 'mates' but we forget how long Gibson has been in this game, 35 years, 27 as chairman. Is there a longer serving chairman in the league? There can't be many and probably much lower profile clubs.

He probably knows everyone to some degree and is astute enough to know that one day he may need a favour
 
I wouldn't think they are 'mates' but we forget how long Gibson has been in this game, 35 years, 27 as chairman. Is there a longer serving chairman in the league? There can't be many and probably much lower profile clubs.

He probably knows everyone to some degree and is astute enough to know that one day he may need a favour
I read his autobiography and it's a good read. Basically made a fortune out of his mobile phone shops and bought Palace but spent his whole time completely exasperated about how far from 'good business practice' that the world of football business is. Hates Iain Dowie but loves Neil Warnock. Think he identified Gibson as one of the few straight-up owners that he dealt with and they got on quite well.
 
I'm no fan of the guy, but, he know how much something is worth paying for, Morris seems to be chancing it to me, trying to recoup his losses
Regardless of whether you like him or not, Mike Ashley is a brilliant businessman. His morals and ethics are one thing, but at running a business, especially turning around those that are in trouble, he knows what he is doing.

On running a football club though, I think he gets a kick out of winding fans up, and Newcastle fans must be some of the easiest to wind up. Why else would you give Alan Pardew an 8 year contract, appoint and persist with Steve Bruce, or change the name of St James Park. He loves it!

I see he is now suing Amanda Stavely for £10m.
 
Alan Nixon seems to think the £50m includes the stadium.
So they owe.....

£8 million to Arsenal
£28 million to HMRC
MSD/Dell are owed £15 million - £20 million (from memory)
I assume they'll owe another couple of million in transfer fees to other clubs too, and their wage bill is probably still a £1 million a month, plus all their other costs (say £5 million 'extras').

So without buying the stadium or training ground I get that somewhere between £55 million - £61 million.

The training ground is leased and the stadium is owned by Morris but was legitimately independently valued at £83 million two or three years ago. The money owed to MSD/Dell is secured against the stadium and training ground, neither of which they now own.

On top of that, say they (or Ashley) agree to settle with us and Wycombe (wild guess, £5 million and £3 million).

So possibly getting nearer to £70 million.

If Ashley gets them for £50 million with a clean slate, and they somehow manage to lease the stadium back cheaply, that puts them in a pretty strong position to have another go and push on, barely suffering any punishment for getting on for five years of cheating.

Absolutely no deterrent to anyone.
 
Back
Top