I have truly mixed feelings over derby...

People are the same the world over, football fans are no different.
Derby fans love their club just the same as we love ours. They're no different from us.
They didn't make the decisions that left them in this mess, Morris did.
It has happened through no fault of their own. A club with a rich heritage.
Football clubs ARE the fans.... not the owners and players come and go.
I have every sympathy for them.
We've been there, right on the brink, and some of you forget that.
In my opinion that is a very naive take.
There has to be accountability and consequence for such industrial scale cheating.
There will be a Derby County for their fans, but not the Premier League one.

To compare our situation in 86 is bizarre.
The sums of money involved were paltry by comparison, we had already been relegated and our only offence was then being placed in Admistration.
We had not spent ridiculous sums of money, we had not broken rules that didn't even then exist. Our actions did not impact any other club.
We had to repay all our debt in order to continue trading/playing.
There were no blind eyes from the Authorities, no helping hands, no leniency.
At the time I don't recall supporters of any other club rallying in our plight.

Derby will continue, the fans will still have their club, but that club can not simply pretend it did not cheat, did not lie and did not arrogantly swagger around thinking they were above even soft rules and punishments.
Fūčk em.
 
We've been there, right on the brink, and some of you forget that.
I don't forget it, I don't forget how we had to rebuild with a squad full of kids, how 12 months later we signed glover for the next season and that's all we could afford. How we had to rise from the footballing backwaters of the third tier. Derby haven't got that level, are still holding on to their playing assets and haven't hit rock bottom yet.
 
This whole Derby situation is utterly self inflicted and they and their fans need to accept that.

However what they all seem to forget is that Mel Morris apperently has an asset worth ~£80million, this "asset" could be sold, even at mark down for quick sale prices and all is well.

So why has that not happened? Ah yes, because it was all rubbish and the EFL allowed it.

Now any future buyer is going to want to buy the assets of the club that will hold a base value, but that's owned by a Mell Morris shell company so no go. HMRC see the stadium as an asset still, so why would they give Derby a deal on their debt? Mel Morris is still the chairman after all.

Derby are in this position because of one man and his fraud, Derby and their fans were more than happy to let their stadium fall into his pocket. Now their only asset that could save them is now the very thing that will doom them.
 
I really don't care about the politics or the legal situation my point remains.
Not one of those fans made any decisions to put the club they love in the dire situation they find themselves in.
They have my empathy. Hope they don't go out of business.
 
Now any future buyer is going to want to buy the assets of the club that will hold a base value, but that's owned by a Mell Morris shell company so no go. HMRC see the stadium as an asset still, so why would they give Derby a deal on their debt? Mel Morris is still the chairman after all.
The stadium thing has really backfired. You would expect that the EFL would take a dim view of Derby inflating the price of Pride Park to sell to Morris, only for him to sell it back to a new buyer for significantly less. HMRC may also take a similar dim view.

It was valued about 30m IIRC for accounting purposes, then inflated to 80m when it was sold to one of Morris's other companies. No prospective buyer would buy Pricde Park back for anything above approx 20-30m. But that would highlight just how inflated the original sale was to fudge FFP.

Now the rules have changed since Morris's dodgy dealings, and I'm not sure if the sale back would be allowed. But from HMRC perspective there would serious questions t ask about inflating and deflating asset values.

Without the stadium and without a squad full of stars, what exactly is the business that operates Derby County? All it has is a brand name (that has been tainted) and a golden share in the league (which is under threat), the club is in serious trouble and it's all Morris and his chickens coming home to roost.
 
The stadium thing has really backfired. You would expect that the EFL would take a dim view of Derby inflating the price of Pride Park to sell to Morris, only for him to sell it back to a new buyer for significantly less. HMRC may also take a similar dim view.

It was valued about 30m IIRC for accounting purposes, then inflated to 80m when it was sold to one of Morris's other companies. No prospective buyer would buy Pricde Park back for anything above approx 20-30m. But that would highlight just how inflated the original sale was to fudge FFP.

Now the rules have changed since Morris's dodgy dealings, and I'm not sure if the sale back would be allowed. But from HMRC perspective there would serious questions t ask about inflating and deflating asset values.

Without the stadium and without a squad full of stars, what exactly is the business that operates Derby County? All it has is a brand name (that has been tainted) and a golden share in the league (which is under threat), the club is in serious trouble and it's all Morris and his chickens coming home to roost.

Exactly, the whole thing is a tangled Web of deceit and one that only Steve Gibson had the balls to call out.
 
The stadium thing has really backfired. You would expect that the EFL would take a dim view of Derby inflating the price of Pride Park to sell to Morris, only for him to sell it back to a new buyer for significantly less. HMRC may also take a similar dim view.

It was valued about 30m IIRC for accounting purposes, then inflated to 80m when it was sold to one of Morris's other companies. No prospective buyer would buy Pricde Park back for anything above approx 20-30m. But that would highlight just how inflated the original sale was to fudge FFP.

Now the rules have changed since Morris's dodgy dealings, and I'm not sure if the sale back would be allowed. But from HMRC perspective there would serious questions t ask about inflating and deflating asset values.

Without the stadium and without a squad full of stars, what exactly is the business that operates Derby County? All it has is a brand name (that has been tainted) and a golden share in the league (which is under threat), the club is in serious trouble and it's all Morris and his chickens coming home to roost.
Tbf to Derby they valued the stadium at 81m, we asserted it was closer to 20m.a 2 year process then followed with 2 seperate independent panels, and multiple surveyors with multiple appeals, the final findings was as follows:

''
Summary of the First Charge
2) The First Charge arises from the sale by the Club of Pride Park Stadium (‘Pride Park’) on 28 June
2018 at a price of £81.1million to Gellaw Newco 202 Limited (‘Gellaw’), a company ultimately owned
and controlled by the Club’s owner and Chairman, Mel Morris. The sale at that price generated a
substantial profit for the Club.
3) The sale of Pride Park
a) Was reflected (albeit at a figure of only £74.4million, for reasons which we set out below) in the
estimated profit and loss account and balance sheet submitted by the Club to the EFL in 2018
for the purpose of complying with the P&S Rules, and
b) Was reflected at that sale price in the Club’s Annual Accounts for the year ended 30 June 2018
that were submitted by the Club to the EFL in early 2019 (by then at £81.1m) for the purpose of
complying with the P&S Rules.''

It was also found to be entirely within the EFLs own rules, though that has since changed. This was Gibsons only complaint at the time and I think defeat on this has gotten to him personally. This must end now, this transcends football, its livelihoods, economies (to which we all suffer), mental health of tens of thousands of people. I had a colleague who was a die hard Darlo fan, he went into a serious long term depression after what happened to them, could we honestly say we don't know many people, maybe ourselves, who wouldn't react exactly the same?
 
Tbf to Derby they valued the stadium at 81m, we asserted it was closer to 20m.a 2 year process then followed with 2 seperate independent panels, and multiple surveyors with multiple appeals, the final findings was as follows:

''
Summary of the First Charge
2) The First Charge arises from the sale by the Club of Pride Park Stadium (‘Pride Park’) on 28 June
2018 at a price of £81.1million to Gellaw Newco 202 Limited (‘Gellaw’), a company ultimately owned
and controlled by the Club’s owner and Chairman, Mel Morris. The sale at that price generated a
substantial profit for the Club.
3) The sale of Pride Park
a) Was reflected (albeit at a figure of only £74.4million, for reasons which we set out below) in the
estimated profit and loss account and balance sheet submitted by the Club to the EFL in 2018
for the purpose of complying with the P&S Rules, and
b) Was reflected at that sale price in the Club’s Annual Accounts for the year ended 30 June 2018
that were submitted by the Club to the EFL in early 2019 (by then at £81.1m) for the purpose of
complying with the P&S Rules.''

It was also found to be entirely within the EFLs own rules, though that has since changed. This was Gibsons only complaint at the time and I think defeat on this has gotten to him personally. This must end now, this transcends football, its livelihoods, economies (to which we all suffer), mental health of tens of thousands of people. I had a colleague who was a die hard Darlo fan, he went into a serious long term depression after what happened to them, could we honestly say we don't know many people, maybe ourselves, who wouldn't react exactly the same?

Couldn't agree more. It also links to my earlier question, which still hasn't been answered.
 
Tbf to Derby they valued the stadium at 81m, we asserted it was closer to 20m.a 2 year process then followed with 2 seperate independent panels, and multiple surveyors with multiple appeals, the final findings was as follows:

''
Summary of the First Charge
2) The First Charge arises from the sale by the Club of Pride Park Stadium (‘Pride Park’) on 28 June
2018 at a price of £81.1million to Gellaw Newco 202 Limited (‘Gellaw’), a company ultimately owned
and controlled by the Club’s owner and Chairman, Mel Morris. The sale at that price generated a
substantial profit for the Club.
3) The sale of Pride Park
a) Was reflected (albeit at a figure of only £74.4million, for reasons which we set out below) in the
estimated profit and loss account and balance sheet submitted by the Club to the EFL in 2018
for the purpose of complying with the P&S Rules, and
b) Was reflected at that sale price in the Club’s Annual Accounts for the year ended 30 June 2018
that were submitted by the Club to the EFL in early 2019 (by then at £81.1m) for the purpose of
complying with the P&S Rules.''

It was also found to be entirely within the EFLs own rules, though that has since changed. This was Gibsons only complaint at the time and I think defeat on this has gotten to him personally. This must end now, this transcends football, its livelihoods, economies (to which we all suffer), mental health of tens of thousands of people. I had a colleague who was a die hard Darlo fan, he went into a serious long term depression after what happened to them, could we honestly say we don't know many people, maybe ourselves, who wouldn't react exactly the same?

That the EFL allowed it to happen is part of the whole deceit, they didn't have the rules in place to stop a blatant fraud from taking place. Derby exploited this.

The problem now is the stadium is only really worth what the market will dictate and that market will value the stadium at its original price, selling at that price will surely open a much greater can of worms for Derby and any potential buyer.

Without the stadium, Derby are just a husk of a club with a mountain of debt. Their only way out is a buyer that will throw money at them with no care as to how much goes down the rabbit hole.

The loyal fans of Derby will be ultimately the one's who suffer and that is awful for them, but there's also many businesses that are owed money that they can't afford to write off.
 
I seem to be swaying in my thoughts on this every other day.

For every Gibson bashing Derby fan who I have no sympathy for, there is a pure, footballing loving Derby fan who will be absolutely heartbroken to see their club go to the wall.

I would hate for our club to forever be remembered for partially bringing another club down, whether that be factually correct or not, there would be a large group of people who believe so. Even non-Derby fans are getting on this bandwagon right now across social media.

It's never fair that the fans suffer the worst out of these type of situations.

I see these people every day. Fortunately they're not the seething Twitter/dcfcfans mob - they do recognise that Morris is the entire cause of the situation BUT they are not happy with Gibson/Boro (not to the point of personal insults or wanting him dead etc, but that it's us holding back the sale of the club rightly or wrongly) as they are desperately worried that their club will disappear. Simple as that.

If that should happen, I can't imagine any way that they'll forget Gibson had something to do with it even though they fully acknowledge the initial culprit.
 
This must end now, this transcends football, its livelihoods, economies (to which we all suffer), mental health of tens of thousands of people. I had a colleague who was a die hard Darlo fan, he went into a serious long term depression after what happened to them, could we honestly say we don't know many people, maybe ourselves, who wouldn't react exactly the same?
but the result of Derby's behaviour is that other clubs have lost out, Wycombe fans will have been depressed, Boro fans missed out on possible happier days.

When a club signs up to the league and it's rules it assumes responsibility to be a good corporate neighbour....and Derby county utterly failed in this.
 
but the result of Derby's behaviour is that other clubs have lost out, Wycombe fans will have been depressed, Boro fans missed out on possible happier days.

When a club signs up to the league and it's rules it assumes responsibility to be a good corporate neighbour....and Derby county utterly failed in this.

And have been punished for each of their 'crimes' in accordance with the rules set at the outset, no?
 
I'm pretty sure it had a book price of approx 30m a year prior to the sale
My mortgage company thinks my house is worth what it was when I took out the original mortgage in 2003, if I take out a new mortgage it will get revalued and could be double that.

Simon Jordan spoke well on this on Talksport this morning, said he spoke to Gibson last week and as much as he likes him this is a shake down, of a club in trouble. I'm not comfortable with that, in fact far from comfortable.
 
My mortgage company thinks my house is worth what it was when I took out the original mortgage in 2003, if I take out a new mortgage it will get revalued and could be double that.

Simon Jordan spoke well on this on Talksport this morning, said he spoke to Gibson last week and as much as he likes him this is a shake down, of a club in trouble. I'm not comfortable with that, in fact far from comfortable.

That is very definitely how it feels to me. ANd it does not reflect well on our club. Simon Jordan is a bellend but on this he is right.
 
My mortgage company thinks my house is worth what it was when I took out the original mortgage in 2003, if I take out a new mortgage it will get revalued and could be double that.
not exactly the same is it. The stadium inflated from 30 to 81 and seemingly back to about 20 all in the space of 5 years....that has no resemblance to the example you gave of your mortgage. It's a dishonest comparison
 
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