I have no time for anti vaxers at all

JM14 said:
Thousands of people die every day, NHS on its knees, other treatments get left, economy on its ****
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Exactly - a sledgehammer has been taken to crack a peanut. A honestly think the long term effects on health over lock downs will be worse than Covid



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FatFrank said:
I think from observing a lot of comments from both sides of the argument, it basically boils down to confirmation bias. You decide on whether or not the vaccine is a good thing based on personal variables such as your upbringing, your knowledge around immunisation including previous vaccines that you have received, your experience with Covid-19 and also the urgency and importance that taking the vaccine would have upon your life.

I'm neither for or against it at this moment in time. I don't believe it has been rushed, so to speak but I am concerned given Pfizer's previous track record around vaccines and the non-liable clause put into their current Covid-19 regime.

The current situation reminds me of that Ricky Gervais gag about those who become offended by topics they hold no control over. Seeing an advert in your local paper for guitar lessons and screaming "but I don't want f**king guitar lessons!!".

I don't have an issue with anti-vaxxers, end of the day it is their agenda and nobody is going to force them to have it. At the same time, nobody is going to alienate the public and disregard those who haven't taken it by not allowing them into social events, public areas or transport. I think we're a long, long way off reverting back to schedule and we just need to take a minute and a breathe to understand what vaccination and immunisation from this virus actually means.
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Whilst I agree that personal choice should be respected, the issue with anti vaxxers is the spread of misinformation. This puts vaccine strategies at risk of failing to protect populations in the way intended
 
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Billy69_uk said:
To be serious for a moment, I spend a fair bit of time in the US, and the whole anti vax things astounds me.

Some schools and colleges etc do not allow admission of students without vax certificates.

Personally, I think the greater good that vaccines bring outweighs personal choice. If you want to be a member of a functioning healthy society, then get vaccinated.

Vaccinations are the single most life-saving innovation ever in the history of mankind, and for modern day confidence in that to be eroded to the level it is today is a disaster. The fact that it can be traced back to one criminally idiotic US doctor is modern day tragedy, and IMHO he should be prosecuted for contributing to thousands of needless deaths..
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Yeah, from illnesses that have been around a while, I agree. But this is a new illness and a new vaccine, people have every right to be scared/apprehensive of one OR the other.
 
indeedido said:
On what metric and scale are you making this judgement?
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On a number of things - general risk to the population as a whole relatively small. 1.5 million deaths world wide out of a population of 8 billion is minuscule especially when taken into account how deaths are being recorded. If we’d had a competent government here there would have far fewer deaths. Take a look around the world at other countries for evidence to back that up - Japan for example almost twice our population but less than 2500 deaths i think ?



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buffaloboro said:
What about you not transmitting the virus to others who may not be as healthy etc as you?
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Tbh Buffalo they have not worked out if a vaccinated person cannot still pass on the bad thing if they come into contact with it and the vaccine is fighting it off.
Apparently it’s possible for the vaccinated not to “get” COVID but the unknown is onward transmission. Hence the roll out plan being the most vulnerable or this must likely to come into contact with it being protected.

took my a head a while to work thus
 
Funky_Chicken said:
Exactly - a sledgehammer has been taken to crack a peanut. A honestly think the long term effects on health over lock downs will be worse than Covid



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Not really another way though, high level of cases in an already stretched healthcare service will end in nothing but disaster, a lockdown in some form is needed to counter this which will then hit the economy. Not sure if any of that is avoidable in some form. Admittedly the UK looks to have take a bigger hit than most countries yet still has a higher death toll, but with this government what do people expect?
 
Laughing said:
Not even close Zorro, let me give you some examples, fire, the wheel the written word and penicillin have all contributed more to life than vaccinations.
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I thought for a brief moment you were going to say God, as without his divine guidance none of these things would have been possible.
 
JM14 said:
Not really another way though, high level of cases in an already stretched healthcare service will end in nothing but disaster, a lockdown in some form is needed to counter this which will then hit the economy. Not sure if any of that is avoidable in some form. Admittedly the UK looks to have take a bigger hit than most countries yet still has a higher death toll, but with this government what do people expect?
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I’m not convinced lock downs work - where’s the evidence they do ? Seems more like kicking the can down the road rather than solving anything 🤔 also the social aspects of lock downs cause all sorts of other physical and mental health problems 😩 maybe if the NHS was funded properly they could deal with Covid AND everything else ? It’s not like the government weren’t warned about this - they were told in 2017 the NHS wasn’t prepared to deal with a pandemic and they did sweet FA about that warning.
Asi said earlier this government actively seeded Covid into care homes resulting in tens of thousands of avoidable deaths. That’s careless at best, corporate manslaughter at worst, depending on your view point



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Funky_Chicken said:
I’m not convinced lock downs work - where’s the evidence they do ? Seems more like kicking the can down the road rather than solving anything 🤔 also the social aspects of lock downs cause all sorts of other physical and mental health problems 😩 maybe if the NHS was funded properly they could deal with Covid AND everything else ? It’s not like the government weren’t warned about this - they were told in 2017 the NHS wasn’t prepared to deal with a pandemic and they did sweet FA about that warning.
Asi said earlier this government actively seeded Covid into care homes resulting in tens of thousands of avoidable deaths. That’s careless at best, corporate manslaughter at worst, depending on your view point



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They have kicked the can down the road until a vaccine has been found though, which was surely the correct thing to do? Probably not if it was going to be 10 years until we had a vaccine but the fact we have one now has justified the lockdowns.

Still shocked on their stance on care homes, wonder how many thousands of needless deaths that caused
 
Chicken by name chicken by nature.

Only joking mate, I understand people concerns. Even though I’d take it myself as soon as I’m offered but I’ve always had a big set of nuts on me 😄
 
If we've gone through the toilet fire of 2020 and thrown billions upon billions at covid, ruined people's livelyhoods and spent the whole year hiding under a table only for the vaccine to fail because people don't take it, I'm done with the human race. I'm going to go and live under the sea with the octopuses.
 
Heam44 said:
Chicken by name chicken by nature.

Only joking mate, I understand people concerns. Even though I’d take it myself as soon as I’m offered but I’ve always had a big set of nuts on me 😄
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😁 I think people should way up the pros an cons and do what’s they feel is right for them regarding the vaccine



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Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
If we've gone through the toilet fire of 2020 and thrown billions upon billions at covid, ruined people's livelyhoods and spent the whole year hiding under a table only for the vaccine to fail because people don't take it, I'm done with the human race. I'm going to go and live under the sea with the octopuses.
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octopi?
 
atypical_boro said:
I don't think there is a single person who wouldn't take the vaccine if they knew it was definitely safe (ok, it probably is) and that covid was definitely likely to affect them in a big way (it doesn't for everyone and everyone has had different experiences with regards people they know). Sorry for your loss though.
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We never take any drugs that are definitely safe. Here is the list of interaction for paracetamol:
British National Formulary

And here you can scroll down to the side effects:
Paracetamol

It is of course a very safe drug when taken in the correct dose. However, it is impossible to test any drug in all possible combinations of other drugs in combination with all states of health; if you require this, no drug will ever be licenced.

indeedido said:
On what metric and scale are you making this judgement?
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In terms of cost of Covid, the National Institue for Health and Care Excellence's (NICE) guideline for approving a new treatment includes a measure of cost-effectiveness. It specifies that a treatment should produce at least 1 Qaly per £30000. A Qaly is 1 year of quality life. Measuring the financial cost-effectiveness of the covid effort so far is nigh-on impossible, but the lowest estimate I've read is £220k/qaly, and some into 7 figure numbers

Now it's a harsh business, putting a cost on life: I'm not getting drawn into the argument about how much is too much. However, I am concerned that the covid effort means that money is diverted away from more cost-effective treatments for other conditions that will make more of a difference to people's lives.
 
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