Hungarian GP

Competitors must ensure that a 1.0 litre sample of fuel may be taken from the car at any time during the Event.

After a practice session, if a car has not been driven back to the pits under its own power, it will be required to supply the above mentioned sample plus the amount of fuel that would have been consumed to drive back to the pits. The additional amount of fuel will be determined by the FIA.
 
I agree with Randy, having 0.7l missing out of your tank feels heavy to be dq’d when someone has taken out 5 cars and caused millions in damage gets a 5 place grid penalty

the rules have been applied correctly, but they feel out of kilter

The last litre of fuel does not belong to the teams.

If it's not there Vettel stops on the track and is out anyway.
 
Bottas took out 2 cars.
They are entirely different situations for two infringements that couldn’t be more different. To compare them and complain about inconsistency just has no logic
Both have a consequence applied. It’s not about comparing. It’s the perceived severity.

I understand the rules have been applied correctly

its like law itself, you can kill someone driving and get less time in prison than say someone accidentally tipping off a fraudster
 
Both have a consequence applied. It’s not about comparing. It’s the perceived severity.

I understand the rules have been applied correctly

its like law itself, you can kill someone driving and get less time in prison than say someone accidentally tipping off a fraudster
I don’t understand what the issue is then with that analogy.
I just can’t understand how you can compare a technical infringement to a racing infringement.

It’s like if in football: a team fields an ineligible player in the FA cup. They are kicked out of the FA cup. If a player breaks another players leg he gets a five game suspension.
Both infringements are entirely different and so are both penalties. Same as what happened to Bottas and Vettel. As pointed out already the rules ARE consistent. Stroll caused a first corner crash and got a five place grid penalty. Bottas caused a first corner crash and got a five place grid penalty. That’s the very definition of consistency
 
I agree with Randy, having 0.7l missing out of your tank feels heavy to be dq’d when someone has taken out 5 cars and caused millions in damage gets a 5 place grid penalty

the rules have been applied correctly, but they feel out of kilter
That's what I'm saying.

The fuel rule is stupid anyways. Why don't they test the fuel before the start of the race?
 
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I don’t understand what the issue is then with that analogy.
I just can’t understand how you can compare a technical infringement to a racing infringement.

It’s like if in football: a team fields an ineligible player in the FA cup. They are kicked out of the FA cup. If a player breaks another players leg he gets a five game suspension.
Both infringements are entirely different and so are both penalties. Same as what happened to Bottas and Vettel. As pointed out already the rules ARE consistent. Stroll caused a first corner crash and got a five place grid penalty. Bottas caused a first corner crash and got a five place grid penalty. That’s the very definition of consistency
And the same as with Max & Lewis in most cases, the incident is judged on the incident itself, not the outcomes severity.
 
That's what I'm saying.

The fuel rule is stupid anyways. Why don't they test the fuel before the start of the race?
They do, for weight/volume to specific gravity and temperature, there's a lot of technical regulations arounf fuel and they are extra vigilant around it after Ferrari's 'cheating/not cheating at all we just lost 0.7 seconds on the straights afterwards' season.

The with the inconsistency with fuel stuff, the last one I can remember was LeClerc and Ferrari got a $10k fine (I think) but it was pre-race, post race he probably would have got a ban as well I assume.
 
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It's a real shame as Seb is a very likeable guy. He was picking up litter at Silverstone and wearing a rainbow face mask and helmen at Hungary and generally being a decent human being. Also a great result for Aston Martin.

But as has been pointed out elsewhere if there wasn't a requirement for the 1l sample then he would have run out of fuel on the last lap. The team know about the rule and fkked up. I didn't notice but did he complete the run down lap at the end of the race to return to the pits or did he park at the end of the pits and walk in? I think Ocon did so they must have suspected that they were on the limit. He was following very close to Ocon through the final laps I would have thought that the team knew how much fuel there was left (or should have) and told him to switch to a more fuel efficient mode.
 
It's a real shame as Seb is a very likeable guy. He was picking up litter at Silverstone and wearing a rainbow face mask and helmen at Hungary and generally being a decent human being. Also a great result for Aston Martin.

But as has been pointed out elsewhere if there wasn't a requirement for the 1l sample then he would have run out of fuel on the last lap. The team know about the rule and fkked up. I didn't notice but did he complete the run down lap at the end of the race to return to the pits or did he park at the end of the pits and walk in? I think Ocon did so they must have suspected that they were on the limit. He was following very close to Ocon through the final laps I would have thought that the team knew how much fuel there was left (or should have) and told him to switch to a more fuel efficient mode.
They can't switch engine maps anymore (it was done to reign in the Mercedes 'party mode' as it was deemed too much of an advantage in Qually), he would have had to back off and lift and coast with Hamilton chasing him down. In hindsight he may have got third and had a litre left, we'll never know.
 
It's a real shame as Seb is a very likeable guy. He was picking up litter at Silverstone and wearing a rainbow face mask and helmen at Hungary and generally being a decent human being. Also a great result for Aston Martin.

But as has been pointed out elsewhere if there wasn't a requirement for the 1l sample then he would have run out of fuel on the last lap. The team know about the rule and fkked up. I didn't notice but did he complete the run down lap at the end of the race to return to the pits or did he park at the end of the pits and walk in? I think Ocon did so they must have suspected that they were on the limit. He was following very close to Ocon through the final laps I would have thought that the team knew how much fuel there was left (or should have) and told him to switch to a more fuel efficient mode.
Ocon did 2 warm down laps for some reason! Maybe he thought the 1,2,3 car parked on the track like some of them did last year? Russell stopped straight after the line so he must have been tight on fuel too. Vettel, I think, stopped near the end of the warm down lap?
 
I dont know why the team didnt tell him to stop on the line or at least back off for the last 5 laps, he had a big enough gap that he wasnt going to get overtaken and was always unlikely to be able to pass Ocon
 
I dont know why the team didnt tell him to stop on the line or at least back off for the last 5 laps, he had a big enough gap that he wasnt going to get overtaken and was always unlikely to be able to pass Ocon
If he’d have backed off Lewis would’ve got him easily. Better than disqualification though. I read this morning that they intend to appeal. Not sure what they expect to change in doing so.
 
I dont know why the team didnt tell him to stop on the line or at least back off for the last 5 laps, he had a big enough gap that he wasnt going to get overtaken and was always unlikely to be able to pass Ocon
Lewis finished less than a second behind so he would have been overtaken if he had backed off for one lap let alone 5.

Besides which, AM have stated that they believed there was more than 1 litre of fuel left, so as far as they are concerned there wasn't a fuel problem that needed to be managed.
 
If he’d have backed off Lewis would’ve got him easily. Better than disqualification though. I read this morning that they intend to appeal. Not sure what they expect to change in doing so.
Think they were claiming the car had more than 1L left just not all in the fuel tank, dont see the point in an appeal the regulations are pretty clear
 
I dont know why the team didnt tell him to stop on the line or at least back off for the last 5 laps, he had a big enough gap that he wasnt going to get overtaken and was always unlikely to be able to pass Ocon
Looking at the rules, stopping on the line wouldn't help as the FIA would calculate how much fuel it would have used to get back to the pits.
 
I’m suprised that Aston Martin haven’t cited the unique circumstances as there was a red flag so an additional lap and then another parade lap as well so it was over race distance anyway.

given that these things are fuelled to the limit anyway. Addingwhat three more laps is always going to be an issue anyway.
 
I’m suprised that Aston Martin haven’t cited the unique circumstances as there was a red flag so an additional lap and then another parade lap as well so it was over race distance anyway.

given that these things are fuelled to the limit anyway. Addingwhat three more laps is always going to be an issue anyway.
I thought that as well, surely the calculations were all thrown out, which I presume is why Russell stopped too.

See, you can say reasonable things when you're not just trying to insult Lewis Hamilton.
Although I suspect your motivation for wanting this is to stop Ham getting 2nd!
 
I’m suprised that Aston Martin haven’t cited the unique circumstances as there was a red flag so an additional lap and then another parade lap as well so it was over race distance anyway.

given that these things are fuelled to the limit anyway. Addingwhat three more laps is always going to be an issue anyway.
The opposite isn't it though? they did a couple of slow laps too which barely uses up fuel compared to flat out. They obviously leave a little wiggle room but they often do fuel them 'just enough' and then fuel save during the race if they need to, they don't want the excess weight to carry.

I think the wording for the FIA 'to have access to' is the issue, the fuel is there in the system but they couldn't draw it off as required.

I don't think there are any circumstances to cite with technical regs usually, it is normally black and white. The tyre pressure is above or below a set figure, the wing deflects more than the allowed amount, the fuel was too cold etc.

If it is caught before the race it is a fine for being outside the regs and can be adjusted. If it is found after the car has failed scrutineering post race and is deemed as being illegal, and the only reason the teams normally deviate from stuff is to try and eek out an advantage. I assume it was fueled a little light as they expected a normal race cruising in midfield rather out front chasing down Ocon for the lead and they've used more than planned.

There might be some merit in an appeal, you never know.
 
"Some drivers think that Hungaroring is similar in style to Circuit de Monaco, due to its tight and twisty corners. Lewis Hamilton said "The Hungaroring is one of the most demanding circuits for drivers because you're busy throughout the entire lap.". Engines are only run at full throttle for around 55 percent of the lap, the second lowest percentage of the season after Monaco."

So it is safe to assume they fuel them lighter than they would for Spa or Monza.
 
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