How would you stop the boats?

I can’t really be chewed to read through all 11 pages of this but I am interested in what people propose for solutions. Before I start from the beginning though, can somebody confirm whether I’d have to wade through loads of ill-informed racist drivel where simpletons out themselves as Farage fanboy numpty pawns in a game of ‘capitalise on a problem but offer zero realistic workable solutions’ while completely overblowing the problem and making out like this is the biggest issue we face as a country and everything will magically be better for those struggling if we can only StOp THe BRowNs? I mean BoAts.
Many thanks.
 
I can’t really be chewed to read through all 11 pages of this but I am interested in what people propose for solutions. Before I start from the beginning though, can somebody confirm whether I’d have to wade through loads of ill-informed racist drivel where simpletons out themselves as Farage fanboy numpty pawns in a game of ‘capitalise on a problem but offer zero realistic workable solutions’ while completely overblowing the problem and making out like this is the biggest issue we face as a country and everything will magically be better for those struggling if we can only StOp THe BRowNs? I mean BoAts.
Many thanks.
Pretty much this, unfortunately.

I will add one interesting observation. Recently a mate who is not racist in any way shape or form has started to discuss that there is too much immigration. This, for me at least, it's a new phenomenon.
 
I can’t really be chewed to read through all 11 pages of this but I am interested in what people propose for solutions. Before I start from the beginning though, can somebody confirm whether I’d have to wade through loads of ill-informed racist drivel where simpletons out themselves as Farage fanboy numpty pawns in a game of ‘capitalise on a problem but offer zero realistic workable solutions’ while completely overblowing the problem and making out like this is the biggest issue we face as a country and everything will magically be better for those struggling if we can only StOp THe BRowNs? I mean BoAts.
Many thanks.
One of the aims of the thread was to make it civil, and it's largely been kept that way. Posts like yours speculating about racist content, and "stop the browns" aren't helpful on a thread that was created to have a genuine discussion about something that is a hot topic for not only our own political parties, but much of Europe too.
 
Pretty much this, unfortunately.

I will add one interesting observation. Recently a mate who is not racist in any way shape or form has started to discuss that there is too much immigration. This, for me at least, it's a new phenomenon.
He will be pleased to find out its nearly halved under labour?
 
I can’t really be chewed to read through all 11 pages of this but I am interested in what people propose for solutions. Before I start from the beginning though, can somebody confirm whether I’d have to wade through loads of ill-informed racist drivel where simpletons out themselves as Farage fanboy numpty pawns in a game of ‘capitalise on a problem but offer zero realistic workable solutions’ while completely overblowing the problem and making out like this is the biggest issue we face as a country and everything will magically be better for those struggling if we can only StOp THe BRowNs? I mean BoAts.
Many thanks.
"Farage fanboys"
"Racist drivel"
"Stop the browns."

Don't bother reading it, you've already made your mind up.
 
Lots of questions but few real answers.

It is completely understandable for people to flee persecution and violence where they fear for their life. Particularly where previous western intervention has created the situation in that country. The majority arriving in the UK by boat are from Afghanistan. People don’t have to stop at the first ‘safe’ country they arrive in. It would be impossible for one nation purely based on geography to provide a safe haven for all refugees or people seeking asylum so it is also understandable some want to come to the UK from France as this is where they have family and where they hope the country will offer them refuge and opportunity.

Unfortunately their hopes butt against the system. Firstly there is no safe route to seek asylum in the UK. They have to get into the country to apply. The most accessible route is to pay smuggling gangs large sums of money to cram them onto inflatable dinghies and travel across the channel. Imagine how desperate you must be to put your wife and children into such a dangerous and perilous situation. Once you land on UK soil you are not an ‘illegal immigrant’ you are an asylum seeker. Your stay only becomes illegal once your application for asylum is heard and rejected - the vast majority are normally approved but this is where you hit your second big problem. The backlog for considering applications is huge and it is going to take a long time to get to the front of the queue. In the meantime you are not allowed to work to earn money to support yourself so you must rely on charity. You are given a place to live and a small amount of money - £49 if your accommodation is self catering or just £9.95 if your accommodation includes meals. Stuck in such situations many fall prey to unscrupulous employers who offer work illegally at slave wages but who can ‘live’ on £9.95 a week? Others, like some of the indigenous population turn to crime to access more money. Most just sit and wait in the hope their asylum application is approved and they can begin the new life they hoped for. The exodus from these broken countries is not going to end soon - the reality is that it is getting worse so what do we do?

1. Set up asylum application arrangements to enter the UK in France Create a safe route so you don’t have to take illegal routes.

Huge legal and jurisdiction issues involved - put this proposal into a search engine and you find many obstacles. Sadly this would also be political suicide for the government as the hard right and its associated press would see this as the opening of the floodgates of migrants coming into the country. It doesn’t matter if you put a cap on it - it would still be interpreted as ‘surrender’ and it isn’t likely to stop people still trying to get here by boat.

2. Re-join the EU and use their protocols to stop the boats?
Boats still arrived when we were in the EU but at least we can be part of a much wider community to work on how to best approach this. The reality is politically this is a non starter as any move against Brexit is toxic for any government.

2. Intercept the boats mid crossing and tow them back to France.
Highly dangerous and likely to result in many deaths and also contrary to international law and basic humanity.

3. Take them off the boats and straight back to France.
They are not French so no right to return them to France and international law dictates they should be brought back to the country that rescued them.

4. Get rid of this ‘international law’.

Backwards isolationist move only adopted by despot nations who have lost there sense of humanity.

5. Intercept the boats before they set off and destroy them.

Not in our gift as we have no rights to send UK personnel onto French soil so we rely on the French to do this - clearly not something they are keen to do but hopefully they can be incentivised to do so with more money.

6. Make it less attractive to come to Britain?

This is where humanity meets nationalism. We don’t leave those arriving to God and providence. We put a roof over their head and make sure they don’t go hungry. The alternate option is to create large encampments as you have previously seen in France where charities try to stop people starving. Is that what we want to become? The financial position of people awaiting consideration of their asylum application is not generous and often exaggerated to make an alternate point.

7. Just send them straight back to their home nation.

The smuggling gangs encourage them to destroy any passports or identification that shows their original country of origin. It is very difficult then to send people back - where to? Also, importantly it is against international law and basic humanity not to listen to a persons reasons for fleeing persecution and to consider their application to seek asylum in this country.

8. Send anyone who arrives by boat to a specific named country to have their application for asylum in the UK considered there and if unsuccessful they then would stay in that location.

Yes this is what Australia do with PNG. This is also the Rwanda proposal from the previous government which highlighted just how difficult this is to do. It is an extremely expensive solution and can only accommodate limited numbers. It is a sticking plaster rather than a solution.

None of these are answers, if it was easy to fix we would have done it years ago. Unfortunately the ‘boats’ dilemma has and will increasingly become a political football for the rise of the hard right in this country who don’t have a solution but fully expose through the demonisation of asylum seekers this issue for their political gains.
 
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Lots of questions but few real answers.

It is completely understandable for people to flee persecution and violence where they fear for their life. Particularly where previous western intervention has created the situation in that country. The majority arriving in the UK by boat are from Afghanistan. People don’t have to stop at the first ‘safe’ country they arrive in. It would be impossible for one nation purely based on geography to provide a safe haven for all refugees or people seeking asylum so it is also understandable some want to come to the UK from France as this is where they have family and where they hope the country will offer them refuge and opportunity.

Unfortunately their hopes butt against the system. Firstly there is no safe route to seek asylum in the UK. They have to get into the country to apply. The most accessible route is to pay smuggling gangs large sums of money to cram them onto inflatable dinghies and travel across the channel. Imagine how desperate you must be to put your wife and children into such a dangerous and perilous situation. Once you land on UK soil you are not an ‘illegal immigrant’ you are an asylum seeker. Your stay only becomes illegal once your application for asylum is heard and rejected - the vast majority are normally approved but this is where you hit your second big problem. The backlog for considering applications is huge and it is going to take a long time to get to the front of the queue. In the meantime you are not allowed to work to earn money to support yourself so you must rely on charity. You are given a place to live and a small amount of money - £49 if your accommodation is self catering or just £9.95 if your accommodation includes meals. Stuck in such situations many fall prey to unscrupulous employers who offer work illegally at slave wages but who can ‘live’ on £9.95 a week? Others, like some if the indigenous population turn to crime to access more money. Most just sit and wait in the hope their asylum application is approved and they can begin the new life they hoped for. The exodus from these broken countries is not going to end soon - the reality is that it is getting worse so what do we do?

1. Set up asylum application arrangements to enter the UK in France Create a safe route so you don’t have to take illegal routes.

Huge legal and jurisdiction issues involved - put this proposal into a search engine and you find many obstacles. Sadly this would also be political suicide for the government as the hard right and its associated press would see this as the opening of the floodgates of migrants coming into the country. It doesn’t matter if you put a cap on it - it would still be interpreted as ‘surrender’ and it isn’t likely to stop people still trying to get here by boat.

2. Re-join the EU and use their protocols to stop the boats?
Boats still arrived when we were in the EU but at least we can be part of a much wider community to work on how to best approach this. The reality is politically this is a non starter as any move against Brexit is toxic for any government.

2. Intercept the boats mid crossing and tow them back to France.
Highly dangerous and likely to result in many deaths and also contrary to international law and basic humanity.

3. Take them off the boats and straight back to France.
They are not French so no right to return them to France and international law dictates they should be brought back to the country that rescued them.

4. Get rid of this ‘international law’.

Backwards isolationist move only adopted by despot nations who have lost there sense of humanity.

5. Intercept the boats before they set off and destroy them.

Not in our gift as we have no rights to send UK personnel onto French soil so we rely on the French to do this - clearly not something they are keen to do but hopefully they can be incentivised to do so with more money.

6. Make it less attractive to come to Britain?

This is where humanity meets nationalism. We don’t leave those arriving to God and providence. We put a roof over their head and make sure they don’t go hungry. The alternate option is to create large encampments as you have previously seen in France where charities try to stop people starving. Is that what we want to become? The financial position of people awaiting consideration of their asylum application is not generous and often exaggerated to make an alternate point.

7. Just send them straight back to their home nation.

The smuggling gangs encourage them to destroy any passports or identification that shows their original country of origin. It is very difficult then to send people back - where to? Also, importantly it is against international law and basic humanity not to listen to a persons reasons for fleeing persecution and to consider their application to seek asylum in this country.

8. Send anyone who arrives by boat to a specific named country to have their application for asylum in the UK considered there and if unsuccessful they then would stay in that location.

Yes this is what Australia do with PNG. This is also the Rwanda proposal from the previous government which highlighted just how difficult this is to do. It is an extremely expensive solution and can only accommodate limited numbers. It is a sticking plaster rather than a solution.

None of these are answers, if it was easy to fix we would have done it years ago. Unfortunately tje ‘boats’ dilemma has and will increasingly become a political football for the rise of the hard right in this country who don’t have a solution but fully expose through the demonisation of asylum seekers this issue for their political gains.
Excellent post
 
I wonder if they are complicit with the gangs …or maybe they are using these poor souls as political pawns.
Or maybe they’re off solving crimes and not chasing people jumping into songs…again what crime is someone committing getting into a dingy, under what law should the police stop people getting into dingys? It was a simple question, but no answer is forthcoming
 
Lots of questions but few real answers.

It is completely understandable for people to flee persecution and violence where they fear for their life. Particularly where previous western intervention has created the situation in that country. The majority arriving in the UK by boat are from Afghanistan. People don’t have to stop at the first ‘safe’ country they arrive in. It would be impossible for one nation purely based on geography to provide a safe haven for all refugees or people seeking asylum so it is also understandable some want to come to the UK from France as this is where they have family and where they hope the country will offer them refuge and opportunity.

Unfortunately their hopes butt against the system. Firstly there is no safe route to seek asylum in the UK. They have to get into the country to apply. The most accessible route is to pay smuggling gangs large sums of money to cram them onto inflatable dinghies and travel across the channel. Imagine how desperate you must be to put your wife and children into such a dangerous and perilous situation. Once you land on UK soil you are not an ‘illegal immigrant’ you are an asylum seeker. Your stay only becomes illegal once your application for asylum is heard and rejected - the vast majority are normally approved but this is where you hit your second big problem. The backlog for considering applications is huge and it is going to take a long time to get to the front of the queue. In the meantime you are not allowed to work to earn money to support yourself so you must rely on charity. You are given a place to live and a small amount of money - £49 if your accommodation is self catering or just £9.95 if your accommodation includes meals. Stuck in such situations many fall prey to unscrupulous employers who offer work illegally at slave wages but who can ‘live’ on £9.95 a week? Others, like some if the indigenous population turn to crime to access more money. Most just sit and wait in the hope their asylum application is approved and they can begin the new life they hoped for. The exodus from these broken countries is not going to end soon - the reality is that it is getting worse so what do we do?

1. Set up asylum application arrangements to enter the UK in France Create a safe route so you don’t have to take illegal routes.

Huge legal and jurisdiction issues involved - put this proposal into a search engine and you find many obstacles. Sadly this would also be political suicide for the government as the hard right and its associated press would see this as the opening of the floodgates of migrants coming into the country. It doesn’t matter if you put a cap on it - it would still be interpreted as ‘surrender’ and it isn’t likely to stop people still trying to get here by boat.

2. Re-join the EU and use their protocols to stop the boats?
Boats still arrived when we were in the EU but at least we can be part of a much wider community to work on how to best approach this. The reality is politically this is a non starter as any move against Brexit is toxic for any government.

2. Intercept the boats mid crossing and tow them back to France.
Highly dangerous and likely to result in many deaths and also contrary to international law and basic humanity.

3. Take them off the boats and straight back to France.
They are not French so no right to return them to France and international law dictates they should be brought back to the country that rescued them.

4. Get rid of this ‘international law’.

Backwards isolationist move only adopted by despot nations who have lost there sense of humanity.

5. Intercept the boats before they set off and destroy them.

Not in our gift as we have no rights to send UK personnel onto French soil so we rely on the French to do this - clearly not something they are keen to do but hopefully they can be incentivised to do so with more money.

6. Make it less attractive to come to Britain?

This is where humanity meets nationalism. We don’t leave those arriving to God and providence. We put a roof over their head and make sure they don’t go hungry. The alternate option is to create large encampments as you have previously seen in France where charities try to stop people starving. Is that what we want to become? The financial position of people awaiting consideration of their asylum application is not generous and often exaggerated to make an alternate point.

7. Just send them straight back to their home nation.

The smuggling gangs encourage them to destroy any passports or identification that shows their original country of origin. It is very difficult then to send people back - where to? Also, importantly it is against international law and basic humanity not to listen to a persons reasons for fleeing persecution and to consider their application to seek asylum in this country.

8. Send anyone who arrives by boat to a specific named country to have their application for asylum in the UK considered there and if unsuccessful they then would stay in that location.

Yes this is what Australia do with PNG. This is also the Rwanda proposal from the previous government which highlighted just how difficult this is to do. It is an extremely expensive solution and can only accommodate limited numbers. It is a sticking plaster rather than a solution.

None of these are answers, if it was easy to fix we would have done it years ago. Unfortunately tje ‘boats’ dilemma has and will increasingly become a political football for the rise of the hard right in this country who don’t have a solution but fully expose through the demonisation of asylum seekers this issue for their political gains.
Brilliant post, I await the response from the “stop the boat” fans….
 
Or maybe they’re off solving crimes and not chasing people jumping into songs…again what crime is someone committing getting into a dingy, under what law should the police stop people getting into dingys? It was a simple question, but no answer is forthcoming
Who knows mart, who knows.
 
There is no such thing as illegal immigration, why does this trope persist.

Anyone can claim asylum coming to the country in any way they can. It's not illegal.

We process them and either grant their claim or return them.
No such thing.

So what is it if you come to this country without the proper entitlement, don’t claim asylum but just disappear into for example, the black economy?
 
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I hate that so many people expend so much energy obsessing about this. These desperate people are not the cause of our struggles. That would be the rich and their tax avoidance. It's deeply depressing that so many of us have taken such a poisonous bait.
The reality is it is a massive issue politically at the moment and needs to be discussed. If it is ignored there is real risk that some very unpleasant people will be in government after the next election.
 
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