How do we counter a high press

Were we jaded?

We get that every time we fail to win yet bounce back without a rest. We brought fresh legs in during January, they didn't look jaded last night but weren't at their best, Akpom didn't look jaded, McGree (not a particularly pacey player) broke through and set up the goal but he wasn't at his best either. Was he jaded. Forss, Barlaser and Finch brought fresh legs on and no improvement.

That was the best side I've seen us up against, I didn't see the Burnley game. They outplayed us more than Sunderland did in our derby defeat. Neil had them playing very, very well and fortunately they look to be too far off to qualify for the play offs.
 
Yes there's no real tactical aspect to it. We were jaded, the passing was poor and we were half a yard too slow in closing down and competing for 2nd balls. Sure, if Stoke hadn't had a decent approach to it we probably would've won, but that wasn't the main factor for me.
The guy behind me was banging on that Carrick needed to change the tactcs. Firstly we don't have that many options, and secondly if all your passes are going astray it becomes an irrelevance anyway
It was a meat and potatoes night, a proper championship knee trembler and while we are a very talented young squad I thought we were quite simply out aresholed.

——————-Steffen—————
Smith—McNair—Lenihan—Giles
———Howson—Hackney———
—-McGree—Akpom—Ramsey
——————-Archer—————-

Playing out from the back so deeply when the turf was as wet as it was looked like a huge error in judgement. I would have started with Fry at the back and Bola at left back..
McGree on the left and Forss on the right.. more of a driving force rather than a passing side (this is based purely on the state of the pitch by the way)
Crooks would have got the nod over Archer and I would have brought on McNair in Midfield should Howson have needed substituting. The ball was considerable slowed down and water clearly fizzing up as it moved across the deck, That’s why we looked leggy, that’s why passes were sloppy. Giles crosses were being scooped as the ball couldn’t be hit as you would expect on a regular pitch.
——————-Steffen—————
Smith———Fry—Lenihan—Bola
———Howson—Hackney———
—-Forss—Akpom—McGree——
—————-Crooks—————-

Subs- Roberts, Giles, McNair, Mowett, Barlaser, Ramsey, Archer
Leo could have come back in the fold to counter the constant badgering of the referees assistant.. the linesman on the west stand side was appalling.
 
dont over think last night....there were mitigating circumstances. Stoke were fresher than us having played on Friday night AT HOME versus us being in Swansea and got to bed at god knows what time on Sunday early hours...that's a lot of extra recovery time.
Difficult to measure the impact but i'm more on the page of ; point gained given Stoke were in form (like us) but fresher than us.
Lets hopefully recover for Preston and Archer can recover his form after a poor game last night and show Preston what they are missing and then we can have a break and enjoy the rest...

It's fine margins, so I think the extra day and travel will have been a small factor.

I also think in games like this - and this is absolutely fair - opposing teams have to hassle and put challenges in just to make it difficult. Stoke were hassling us, they weren't playing the ball but nudging the man receiving and making it difficult. We have to cope with that. Usually we do, we've been quicker and a little more accurate than last night. The ref could have seen this was a tactic and got cards out early, but I prefer ref's that want to let a game flow and accept football is a physical contest. Stoke stopped just where the line is for me, well played them. They were also good on the ball. If I was a Stoke fan I'd be giving each of their starting eleven an 8 or 9/10 as they were all good. Us, maybe 7's apart from Chuba.

If you aren't on it 100% like that then you need to be stronger and we had Archer, Hackney and Ramsey who are very good, but still a bit young and developing speed and strength wise and also inexperienced in games like this so not yet as savvy as they could be. It was a little similar to the Sunderland game where centre midfield is crucial and Hackney hadn't played in a game quite as intense. In both games you need his partner Howson to be right at the top of his game. In the Sunderland one people forget the knock Howson got early on which he then struggled with for a good portion of that half. Last night it seemed like the potential suspension if booked curbed him a little too to me (which I'm not unhappy at).

7 wins in a row at home before last night and there had been no draws in the previous 17 games, we were due a draw really. Even Arsenal's invincibles drew four home games, against Portsmouth, Fulham, Man Utd and Birmingham.
 
One of the biggest problems to me last night was that the players receiving the ball weren’t sharp enough and were getting nipped in front of. Lenihan and Hackney were finding the passes but the players weren’t strong enough or sharp enough to get it under control.
Happened all game...Stoke played a blinder im rhat regard..they were on the heels of us all night like Jack Russell's...they gave out playmakers no time to play make and we ran out of ideas after that I think
Good lesson for Michael I think about a change on tactics being required when were being snuffed out....route 1 maybe.... .get the back 4 on their heels and allow the midfield to push on behind fighting for knock down..
That is a last last resort we play beautiful football that's a joy to watch but if you can't play through them or flank them then you can only go over the top
 
Happened all game...Stoke played a blinder im rhat regard..they were on the heels of us all night like Jack Russell's...they gave out playmakers no time to play make and we ran out of ideas after that I think
Good lesson for Michael I think about a change on tactics being required when were being snuffed out....route 1 maybe.... .get the back 4 on their heels and allow the midfield to push on behind fighting for knock down..
That is a last last resort we play beautiful football that's a joy to watch but if you can't play through them or flank them then you can only go over the top
I thought it was a big improvement from Burnley, at Burnley we weren’t even finding the players we were losing it or lumping it. At least we were finding the players, it just wasn’t sticking.

And yeah the other option was to get them turned to make them afraid to push onto us but we don’t seem to want to do that.
 
It's easy to press if you know, regardless of the pressure.. the team will continue to short pass out of the box.. which is a poor instruction..

You have to be flexible in your play.. yesterday we needed to have a plan to hit a longer pass from our box..
 
It's either the clip into Akpom in the pocket or Archer in behind, you cant press high without leaving space between your defence and midfield or having a high line,

The usual tactic pf Akpom dropping into pockets and clipping it into him wasn't working last night as The stoke had giants all over the pitch who were outmuscling him so whenever it did get pinged into him, he didn't retain possession as often as he does usually.

Archer running in behind is also an option if they press high and play a high line, but he wasn't making those runs last night, and on the rare occasion he did our passing wasn't quite good enough to find him
They only have 10 outfield players, so if they have 5 or 6 players pressing high then there is space behind. Defenders need to move the ball quick, get their head up and be brave. Look for the pass into midfield or longer down the sides. The gaps were there, we just failed to exploit them. Defenders got a bit panicky, midfielders struggled to get free to receive it....but that's where we need to change it up, go a little more direct, play beyond the midfield into the forwards who were 1 vs 1 a couple of times.
 
It's either the clip into Akpom in the pocket or Archer in behind, you cant press high without leaving space between your defence and midfield or having a high line,

The usual tactic pf Akpom dropping into pockets and clipping it into him wasn't working last night as The stoke had giants all over the pitch who were outmuscling him so whenever it did get pinged into him, he didn't retain possession as often as he does usually.

Archer running in behind is also an option if they press high and play a high line, but he wasn't making those runs last night, and on the rare occasion he did our passing wasn't quite good enough to find him
Archer looked like he needed a rest.....i very much rate him but last night he wasn't up for it....at all...
 
Our passing was just not up to scratch yesterday. There was a period in the second half where it was really bad. There is no way you can beat the press with poor passing. I didn't think Stoke did much wrong or were overly agressive. We just couldn't play through them. Hopefully just a one off, but a concern nevertheless.
 
One of the biggest problems to me last night was that the players receiving the ball weren’t sharp enough and were getting nipped in front of. Lenihan and Hackney were finding the passes but the players weren’t strong enough or sharp enough to get it under control.
We did seem a bit lightweight last night for some reason
 
I don't think the ref helped. I'm not claiming he was biased, there was no major decisions or anything he got wrong and if anything we benefited by not conceding a penalty. I think he allowed a lot of niggly tackles to go which if he had been stricter with I think would have been better for us. If they couldn't get so tight to us we might have had a bit more time on the ball and not lost so many midfield battles.

I didn't think it was a penalty, he went down where he expected a tackle but Ramsey pulled out of it. If he wanted to be biased that was a good opportunity to give them something.
 
Play it long. You've got quick players in attack. You're much better off trying to play it behind the defence. Get it down the channel for archer Ramsey or Forss to run onto. Mix it up a bit. Don't be dogmatic. If something isn't working change it.
 
It's fine margins, so I think the extra day and travel will have been a small factor.

I also think in games like this - and this is absolutely fair - opposing teams have to hassle and put challenges in just to make it difficult. Stoke were hassling us, they weren't playing the ball but nudging the man receiving and making it difficult. We have to cope with that. Usually we do, we've been quicker and a little more accurate than last night. The ref could have seen this was a tactic and got cards out early, but I prefer ref's that want to let a game flow and accept football is a physical contest. Stoke stopped just where the line is for me, well played them. They were also good on the ball. If I was a Stoke fan I'd be giving each of their starting eleven an 8 or 9/10 as they were all good. Us, maybe 7's apart from Chuba.

If you aren't on it 100% like that then you need to be stronger and we had Archer, Hackney and Ramsey who are very good, but still a bit young and developing speed and strength wise and also inexperienced in games like this so not yet as savvy as they could be. It was a little similar to the Sunderland game where centre midfield is crucial and Hackney hadn't played in a game quite as intense. In both games you need his partner Howson to be right at the top of his game. In the Sunderland one people forget the knock Howson got early on which he then struggled with for a good portion of that half. Last night it seemed like the potential suspension if booked curbed him a little too to me (which I'm not unhappy at).

7 wins in a row at home before last night and there had been no draws in the previous 17 games, we were due a draw really. Even Arsenal's invincibles drew four home games, against Portsmouth, Fulham, Man Utd and Birmingham.
totally agree with all of that. Stoke knew just where the line was and a niggly ref would've booked 2 or 3 of them early on and stopped their 'game' as you perfectly describe it above. I think it's a theme of Alex Neil teams....gritty, niggly and play close to the knuckle...all the time.
I was super happy with a point after watching that....hid behind my seat most of the game....!
 
I thought we were bullied esp that lad in mf that just brushed/pushed us off the ball every time he came near and once the ref did nothing he just continued.
They were a very physical side weren't they, very much a stereotypical championship side, but a decent one at that.

A lot of teams play a high press these days and as many build from the back.

The team in possession needs to be brave enough and composed enough when trying to play out.

We weren't last night, unusually, we didn't look anywhere near as sharp as we have done recently.
 
Players looked off the pace because they were probably exhausted, this was emphasized by the hoof ball from the back and lack of movement and passing accuracy. Hopefully they can recover in time for PNE. There was some contributing factors such as the opposition was a shade better than us, they scored just before the break, and the pitch which seemed waterlogged.
 
I think a lot of people are over thinking last night. We simply weren't at our best against a strong side in good form.

We had won 15 of our previous 19 league games and there have been plenty of teams that have tried the high press in that time. It was a bad night in the office, we lacked our normal composure and too many players seemed a yard off the pace. But we didn't lose and that is a big positive.

We go again on Saturday and then get a little rest. Hopefully we play better and get the 3 points against Preston, but the fact is we are not going to win every game and there doesn't need to be a full inquest anytime we fail to win.
Completely agree with this. It was just a tough game against a side in form, and in Smallbone, had a player who bossed the game. No need for huge inquest. Just too many players below par.

Archer had by far his poorest game for us and just couldn’t get on the ball. A shame as prior to kick off I thought he would run old man Jagielka ragged. Ramsey just went missing 2nd half. At one point I thought he’d gone off but then he appeared and I thought where has he been the last 20 minutes. And Hackney bless him, had his toughest game yet. Completely outmuscled in the middle, when he did get the ball he gave it away many times 2nd half and you could see in the last 10 minutes no-one wanted to play a killer ball for fearing of giving it away as we’d had so little of it.

Tough night but we still earned a point when we really should have had none.

One controversial thing I will say, I am not a Steffan hater like some are, but I couldn’t agree with him been man of the match based on his late saves as in my opinion he had a howler in letting in the equaliser when it went straight through him. He needed to make those saves to make up for the error.

Last night does put further pressure on to get maximum points Saturday though.
 
Back
Top