Alexander Supertramp
Well-known member
Yes. As long as I still get my free pint.
Honestly, do you want to go up this season?
- Thread starter Smoggyonthesolent
- Start date
coluka
Well-known member
I am not confusing anything. Burnley did alright sticking with Dyche as one example. Dyche has done incredibly well at a club with insufficient funding on playing staff. He might yet keep them up yet again. The fans lost it with AK over his misguided comments after WHU. The club did not recruit well and let him down by failing to bring in a playmaker and thereby hanging on to Ramirez. Karanka lost it at the end of the January 17 window, rightly so, but fans took sides even wanting him sacked after Charlton debacle the year before. Managers are scapegoated all the time, often unfairly, not everything that happens at a club, an organisation of any sorts is always the managers fault, they are the first to be targeted though.
I reluctantly agreed he had to go as the fans had turned the volume was too much for the chairman imho, just like when Mogga went. I do think AK was best placed to get us straight back up with Monks £50M or so though, but hey, thats football.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
So what you're saying is that he bowed to fan pressure. I don't think he did. He reacted because he like so many understand the game and could see how wrong we were on the pitch.He saw what happened at Stoke away, The fans were a disgrace, just like they were at Barnsley away under Mogga What happened after both events, neither managed another league game. Just a coincidence? I think not!! As for you trying to suggest I have a low opinion of the Chairman, that could not be further from the truth since he sacked Woodgate. It is a fact that people are judged on their actions and rightly so. Between 2006-2013 and from summer 2016 some of his decisions seemed really poor. We all know that players have come in that some managers did not want. Downing confirmed it as did Southgate, you refuse to believe them, Karanka spoke on 2 occasions of receiving ‘gifts’ from his chairman, those blinkers are lasting well though.
Now it is his club, his money he has every right to do as he wishes, but it is undeniable some decisions made turned out to be poor. He has turned things around thankfully and since sacking Woodgate his decision making seems first class. I hold him in high regard for all he tries to do for the club, but i will have my opinions as a fan as I pay my money in to the club, you seem more bothered about Billingham at times than Boro to me.
It was reported he sacked Monk on speaking to another club (Swansea I think) without permission. Pulis was not sacked, his contract was not renewed. Woodgate, acted quickFar too slow for me, he gave him far too long, giving him the job proved another masterstroke!! We would have been relegated imho, but for his bringing in Warnock at the 11th hour.
Some people think he is a god, he isn’t he is just a wealthy bloke who wants the best for Boro, I am extremely grateful for that and always will be, but he gets things wrong like every man does, and sometimes, spectacularly so (e.g. appointing Woodgate, Strachan, Monk, Pulis, sanctioning the signing some players the head coach‘s clearly didn’t want). I suppose you think AK gave Downing that stupid contract where he was contracted to get an extension based on starting appearances. It was a good job AK had him on the bench a fair bit. Pulis then was instructed to do the same. You have him on a pedestal by all means, like anyone i judge on actions. At present, he is letting others get on with their jobs and is doing himself, the club and fans a great service by changing strategy. He has my respect for that, so I suggest you take your bigoted accusation about me having a low estimation of his qualities at present and place it where the sun don’t shine. I am 100% behind him since his sacking Woodgate, he has made some excellent decisions since and has the club in a very healthy state, I will be delighted if he continues in the same vein if thats alright with you.
This 'fans hounded him out' is absolute horseshyt, they went, and those after, because their time was up. Mowbray's side were shot to bits, Karanka's side went through the motions after suffering his tactics for half a season. It wasn't a one off fan reaction, McLaren would have been gone long before he did had that been the case, he also talked to other clubs but remained until the England job came along.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
Karanka lost it prior to promotion, all too evident the following season. He hasn't held a job down since for any length of time.
Humpty
Well-known member
You're deluded. There is absolutely no comparison to be made between Dyche and Karanka. One could handle the pressures of management, the other couldn't. Karanka had lost the confidence of the chairman, the players and the fans by the time he was sacked and for demonstrative reasons. He was in no way let down by the club in terms of recruitment. He built that squad. It was made up of a large Spanish contingent that he failed to get the best of and at worse let run a poisonous divide within the first team squad. Karanka should've been let go when he walked out on the club before Charlton
changingman
Well-known member
Royal Antwerp along with De Laet AND Faris Haroun
That's my Belgian team sorted.
coluka
Well-known member
Deluded
The Irony !Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
He's spot on.Deluded
On the Dyche/Karanka comparison that is. Dyche has been a far better manager, and with fewer resources to get there.
His football leaves a lot to be desired but so did Karanka's after a good start.
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coluka
Well-known member
Are you deliberately obtuse. I was not comparring AK with Dyche as managers, read it again. I was suggesting Boro should have stuck with Karanka and given him the chance to get us back up the following season, like Burnley did with Dyche. I also praised Burnley and Dyche. However, some of our fanbase wanted the manager gone after the Charlton debacle the year before, they judged and had a chip on their shoulders, following which 4 senior players spoke out for AK to the chairman. Many fans without knowing what actually happened lost it then.
Many on here before a PL ball was kicked were arguing 17th would be a success. A lot of people lost sight of reality after Christmas 2016. AK did not help himself after the WHU home game i will agree. He was misguided, but it was his Basque temperament and frustration that spilled out as he was not getting in the types of players we needed. The players that were earlier signed, Fischer, Espinosa, Negredo, Valdes, were free or cheap due to serious previous injuries, Espinosa wasn’t fit when signed. Guzan and Traore were from a relegated club as was The Donkey in January. Fabio was signed on the cheap he too had been relegated the season before Villa were. There was a pattern, players who were cheapish who either signed cheaply through hope they’d get mojo’s back after previous serious injury or relegation quantity over quality. De Roon was the only potentially exciting signing, but he was often lost, Traore was a project.
The club seemingly had a cabinet style recruitment set up several people inputted, the manager did not always get his way, then there was Orta in the mix too. Orta was head of European recruitment and is on record as saying he learned from his recruitment mistakes at Middlesbrough the players from Spain were were his recommendation. Karanka was a head coach, not the manager. I respectfully suggest you learn the difference in roles. Karanka did not have overall control as fans believed he did.
newyddion
Well-known member
We were so close to being on the right track, Victor Lindelöf very nearly signing on loan in January 2016 with a view to a permeant deal for £5m at the end of the season. Then in the summer we were in for a certain Harry Maguire for £4m then £5m.. then we cooled our interest and turned our attention to Callum Chambers
Valdes - Free - I honestly wasn't a fan, the same season Burnley picked up Nick Pope for £1m (didn't start) and Matty Ryan moved the season after for around £5m
Barragan - £2m - I WASNT A FAN (Paddy McNair too much of a stretch at £4.5m)
Chambers - Loan - GREAT BUT WASNT OUR PLAYER (I would have preferred Nathan Aké on loan)
Espinosa - Free - INJURED a big risk and but a player we doubled our money on.
Fabio - £2m - a cheap and cheerful little player, better than Joe Bennett on a free?
Traore - Swap - had to be done, great bit of transfer business
De Roon - £10m - a solid signing - Idrissa Gueye & Steven Defour both moved for around £7m in the summer
Guedioura - £4.5m - AN UTTER WASTE OF MONEY
Fisher - £3.8m - INJURED a risk worth taking? we took £5m in for Adam Reach (Christian Atsu went on loan to Newcastle for £450k)
Negredo - Loan - a solid premier league player £5m on wages alone (Jordan Ayew moved for £5m)
Gestede - £6m - A COMPLETE AND UTTER WASTE OF MONEY (I would rather have rolled the dice on Mario Ballotelli for less money)
Guzan - Free - poor but fine as a back up keeper imo better nick than Tim Howard anyway
Ramirez - Free - looked like a no brainer, shame he let his winkie loose round boro. Ravel Morrison was knocking about from Lazio at the time..
Bamford - £5.5m - not suitable for the prem at that time, Ashley Fletcher moved to West Ham on a free.
Spent £18m in the summer, £16m in the January
£34m moved them on bringing in £48m - so we made £18m back on transfer fees mainly due to Adama Traore.
Gerard Deulofeu would have held his value, but then again the outlay would have been a large part of our budget.
Where did we go wrong? Free transfers in Valdes, Espinosa, Guzan & Ramirez.. on paper looked good. Loan Transfers of Negredo and Chambers you couldn't complain about. De Roon was a SOLID signing for the premier league, Traore was a great transfer for us. Fisher was a name that excited most.
Espinosa not being fit, Fisher not being fit and rumours of dressing room upset.. in short it was the January transfer window, Gestede, Guedioura & Bamford £10m down the drain on fees alone. These were positions that should have been filled before the season started. Stick Idrissa Gueye - £7m Jordan Ayew - £5m and Christian Atsu in the mix from the start and we look like a premier league team. Christian Atsu moved to Newcastle the season after for £6m bringing us bang on the same budget as we actually laid out. These are players that were known to us that we were looking at. Who on earth signed off on Gestede, Guedioura & Bamford?
What can we learn? Maybe don't gamble on injuries? Start of with the minimum of a balanced squad? GET VALUE FOR MONEY!
This maybe a sticking point but Mario Ballotelli represents better value than Rudy Gestede. Not many would argue that Gueye, Ayew & Atsu are far superior to the likes of Gestede, Guedioura & Bamford.
Bamford was maybe seen as one for the future, but when we sell to make a £1m proffit which we spend on a loan fee for Jordan Hugill.. then what is the point?
Cousin_of_Fabio
Active member
I do under Wilder has a few have alluded to his debut season with Sheff Utd.
The last season we had in the PL was shocking, still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth now so would like that rectifying.
The last season we had in the PL was shocking, still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth now so would like that rectifying.
indeedido
Well-known member
There are little bits I agree with newy but lots of it I don't.
We made nearly as much profit on Ramirez as we did on Traore. We cleared over £4m on Espinosa, even though he was very poor.
Bamford was a very very good signing, only pulis thought not and he is retarded. Traore for Adomah was a good piece of business.
None of the other signings were good - bar Chambers on loan.
To spend so little in the summer window was silly.
Loans, unfit players, cheap players was daft.
Negredo and Valdes were finished at top level. Fischer, Fabio, Espinosa, Barragan, Guzan, just no good.
Gestede and Guedioura were mystifying.
We needed more quality than De Roon and Chambers.
I'm really glad we didnt sign Atsu or Ayew and don't regret any of the others you mention really.
What I do agree with is the need to recruit well, wisely and ensuring value for money.
Invest big on quality to keep you up, improve the team and who grow in value. If it still ends up in relegation you have parachutes and assets to sell.
Maccarone
Well-known member
ASAP, I have much more confidence in the current set up to ensure we approach things in the right way.
Scott with ensure our transfer budget is spent much more wisely with much more research done on the player's.
This season would be wonderful thank you, that's my hope and dreams.
Scott with ensure our transfer budget is spent much more wisely with much more research done on the player's.
This season would be wonderful thank you, that's my hope and dreams.
Agree it is better to get promoted sooner rather than later. However I think we will get promoted next season anyway, so don't think it is crucial or now or never to go up this year. As others have said, recruitment is key and for us, unfortunately, we'll probably need at least 3 top quality strikers, which is the hardest position to buy. I can't think of anyone who will guarantee us goals and would want to come here. Let's enjoy the rest of the season and see where we end up!
Ipad1977
Well-known member
I agree with all of this, except two points; Valdes did prove his worth on quite a few occasions and Bamford wasn't a bad signing for the money, considering what he became when he went back to the Prem with a different manager. He was also a fans favourite.
Everything else you've said though is spot on.
Colin Warnek
Well-known member
I think the 14-15 team would have competed better in the PL. So yes.