Hight Court rules killing of four IRA members was not justified

[Redwurzel]

Always is a long time. In fact, Ireland was only a single country in anyone’s concept when Henry VIII started pretending it was with the Crown of Ireland Act and only really came into practical being under unified British rule a century or so later. Ireland was never a single country prior to that. None of which gives the British any rights of course. But the government of Ireland, and the inevitability or otherwise of a 32 county state, is a matter for the peoples of Ireland and not a historical necessity (any more than a single GB state is). Which I think you were saying as well.

I agree always is a very long time (I sometimes cover a bot over the top to emphasise a point which is a fault) I should have said 400 to 500 years.

There was a Kingdom of Ireland from Henry VIII's time until 1800. The majority of the population of the island of Ireland appeared never to happy with complete union with England that includes even some Protestants in Ireland. Ireland had its own parliament before 1800. In the Seventeenth century many Scottish and English people were planted there or given land and estates against the wishes of those living there. Of course geographically there has been a large island to the West of England and Wales for at least tens of thousands of years.

I worked in England with a Protestant guy who said his distant relatives had gone to Ireland to fight with Oliver Cromwell Army and overcome the Catholic rulers of the time Ireland. He spoke with a broad Dublin accent and had come, he would say escaped to England by joining the RAF and stayed after leaving the RAF. He told me those who fought with Cromwell in Ireland were given various rewards. So senior commanders were given seized Irish Estates and held those for hundreds of years in some cases e.g Duke of Wellington's family. Others were allowed to bid for confiscated land as long as there were not Catholic. Catholics wwre banned from public office until around 1800, same with the armed forces in Ireland. Those in the Irish Parliament were mainly wealthy Irish protestants. From what I learnt from visiting Ireland, it was as though Ireland (1600 to 1842 possibly even to 1922) was similar to the Deep South in the USA (from 1865 to 1965) with major discrimination against Catholics by a ruling Protestant minority.

There is a common belief in people I meet from the Republic of Ireland that Ireland was ruled as a colony of England/GB, certainly from 1800 to 1922. That there is a distinct Irish identity that is different from British and it had been around for long before 1922. Some do hold bitter feelings about how so many people were allowed to die in the Famine (1847-1850) or forced to leave Ireland under British rule, it was seen as a very bad time, when politicians in Westminster neglected the Irish, because those in power basically didn't care. I try to tell others its not just a English suppression thing, but also a strong element of class supression i.e. the wealthy not helping the poor. in time of their great need.

 

[theboydom]

I agree always is a very long time (I sometimes cover a bot over the top to emphasise a point which is a fault) I should have said 400 to 500 years.

There was a Kingdom of Ireland from Henry VIII's time until 1800. The majority of the population of the island of Ireland appeared never to happy with complete union with England that includes even some Protestants in Ireland. Ireland had its own parliament before 1800. In the Seventeenth century many Scottish and English people were planted there or given land and estates against the wishes of those living there. Of course geographically there has been a large island to the West of England and Wales for at least tens of thousands of years.

I worked in England with a Protestant guy who said his distant relatives had gone to Ireland to fight with Oliver Cromwell Army and overcome the Catholic rulers of the time Ireland. He spoke with a broad Dublin accent and had come, he would say escaped to England by joining the RAF and stayed after leaving the RAF. He told me those who fought with Cromwell in Ireland were given various rewards. So senior commanders were given seized Irish Estates and held those for hundreds of years in some cases e.g Duke of Wellington's family. Others were allowed to bid for confiscated land as long as there were not Catholic. Catholics wwre banned from public office until around 1800, same with the armed forces in Ireland. Those in the Irish Parliament were mainly wealthy Irish protestants. From what I learnt from visiting Ireland, it was as though Ireland (1600 to 1842 possibly even to 1922) was similar to the Deep South in the USA (from 1865 to 1965) with major discrimination against Catholics by a ruling Protestant minority.

There is a common belief in people I meet from the Republic of Ireland that Ireland was ruled as a colony of England/GB, certainly from 1800 to 1922. That there is a distinct Irish identity that is different from British and it had been around for long before 1922. Some do hold bitter feelings about how so many people were allowed to die in the Famine (1847-1850) or forced to leave Ireland under British rule, it was seen as a very bad time, when politicians in Westminster neglected the Irish, because those in power basically didn't care. I try to tell others its not just a English suppression thing, but also a strong element of class supression i.e. the wealthy not helping the poor. in time of their great need.

"Catholics wwre banned from public office until around 1800"
You might want to look closer to home there n'all. The Roman Catholic Relief Act wasn't passed at Westminster until 1829 and that was for England & Wales. The Catholic hierarchy wasn't re-established until 1850. As ever, rich Catholics could get round the existing laws

 

[JackG]

"Catholics wwre banned from public office until around 1800"
You might want to look closer to home there n'all. The Roman Catholic Relief Act wasn't passed at Westminster until 1829 and that was for England & Wales. The Catholic hierarchy wasn't re-established until 1850. As ever, rich Catholics could get round the existing laws

Catholics are still expressly prohibited from succession to the throne.