Have we given up as a club

[Frozen Horse]

How would you feel about a striker who failed to make the grade at Celtic?

That's what Pukki was before he joined Norwich, and I can see the complaints about us being linked with such a player now.

The assumption is always that a striker will reproduce the sort of form he's shown before. Pukki is good evidence that that is nonsense. We need to find strikers who can produce more for us than they have at their previous clubs.

Above all, we must not fall into the fools trap of signing names. It may create a buzz during the off season, but there are 0 points given for that, and the buzz lasts 20 minutes into the first match if performance isn't good.

 

[Jedi boro]

I agree with this to a point but wasn’t puki a full international for Finland so hardly a no body. I agree though it’s about how they will play here not how have they failed elsewhere.

 

[coluka]

How would you feel about a striker who failed to make the grade at Celtic?

That's what Pukki was before he joined Norwich, and I can see the complaints about us being linked with such a player now.

The assumption is always that a striker will reproduce the sort of form he's shown before. Pukki is good evidence that that is nonsense. We need to find strikers who can produce more for us than they have at their previous clubs.

Above all, we must not fall into the fools trap of signing names. It may create a buzz during the off season, but there are 0 points given for that, and the buzz lasts 20 minutes into the first match if performance isn't good.

I have long since said that creating a successful football team is not rocket science. It is about deciding on a preferred method of play, 4-2-3-1, 4-4-2 etc whatever that style may be (i know styles need adapting at times in games). Then slotting in your existing squad players who you are certain can fit that shape to the letter, not players who can do a job there or hope they can. You then over time introduce new players who are a fit. It is like a jigsaw really, or a knitting pattern.

We have long since brought in players who have performed well in one style and then expect them to adapt to a new style altogether, it rarely works, See Britt. Square pegs in square holes please.

 

[TeaCider]

I agree with this to a point but wasn’t puki a full international for Finland so hardly a no body. I agree though it’s about how they will play here not how have they failed elsewhere.

Finland are hardly a footballing powerhouse.
He was capped for Finland after scoring 3 goals in 17 appearances in the Spanish second division.

 

[Malaguena]

or me the ultimate sign that we’d “given up” was when we let a dinosaur like pullis through the door.

It has to be said, closely followed by another dinosaur - yes, he kept us up last year for which we're grateful, but he isn't the future, and the 1 year deal is simply ridiculous.

We'll also suffer for recruitment this summer because a) he'll go for Warnock type players, and b) decent players won't come because he's the manager

Contentious I know, but there we go

 

[Jedi boro]

Finland are hardly a footballing powerhouse.
He was capped for Finland after scoring 3 goals in 17 appearances in the Spanish second division.

A quick look at his stats shows he’s scored goals at every level though so he’s a goal scorer the next but is where scouting comes in...

 

[fmttmadmin]

Aren't people reacting to players we have been linked with rather than players we are signing?
We all know by now that paper talk can be just that, especially in the month after the end of season. Agents are desperate to get their players into the news as contracts come up for expiry at the end of June.

 

[FatCat]

For me we’ve had the players they have just been mismanaged or we didn’t have the right system - look at the plaudits jack harrison and Bamford are getting these days and we had them as bench warmers far too often. In match of the day today they were questioning whether jack harrison should be in the running for England given how influential he has been this season in the prem.

stuani another one who didn’t get enough game time for us and then goes off elsewhere and does it.

we’ve had the money we’ve had the players there just seems to be something at the club which brings out the worst in good players and doesn’t exploit the potential of other players who then go elsewhere and become world beaters!

 

[coluka]

For me we’ve had the players they have just been mismanaged or we didn’t have the right system - look at the plaudits jack harrison and Bamford are getting these days and we had them as bench warmers far too often. In match of the day today they were questioning whether jack harrison should be in the running for England given how influential he has been this season in the prem.

stuani another one who didn’t get enough game time for us and then goes off elsewhere and does it.

we’ve had the money we’ve had the players there just seems to be something at the club which brings out the worst in good players and doesn’t exploit the potential of other players who then go elsewhere and become world beaters!

I know what you are saying and agree to a certain extent.

The biggest issue we have had of late for me is picking managers that don’t suit the squad we have. Then we waste money on fire fighting and short term tweaks. I am a huge fan of Neils management style and his results and successes as you probably know, the fact that this is likely his last year is a worry if there is no future proofing built in. I think there is, in Blackwell. Whether that is good or bad is open to debate. Neil could still be around in another capacity in such a scenario. So long as we sign players to fit the styles Neil wants rather than hoping they adapt is key.

However, we are where we are, the biggest worry for the signing of new players will be if they think or know Neil is only here for the year (as is likely) it could mean players reject us as they fear further uncertainty might be just around the corner.

 

[Smoginexile]

I think we are a mid table championship club.
So we will attract mid table championship players
I am not saying we should settle for that.
But it's nothing to be ashamed of either
Because of Steve Gibson we were so close to being so much more not too long ago but I think that's gone now.

 

[Nosmo-King]

Aren't people reacting to players we have been linked with rather than players we are signing?
We all know by now that paper talk can be just that, especially in the month after the end of season. Agents are desperate to get their players into the news as contracts come up for expiry at the end of June.

We haven’t signed anyone - so how can you react to non events?!

 

[S7DiscoDown]

I'm sure if we'd spent 3mil on Watkins from Exeter or even Toney for 1mil from Newcastle reserves this site would have melted down saying 'we should get Dwight Gayle for 5mil'

Toney only managed a handful of goals in various loans for the mags. You'd think he was sh*t on stats before he went to posh.

Neil Maupay 1.6mil from some French club. People would be saying 'who the fecks that'.

The big misconception is you need to spend millions to buy or find a decent forward. You really don't. You need to get lucky or have a great scouting team.

I know in hindsite is fine but we could have picked up Armstrong and Toney from Newcastle reserves for 3mil (as could any club) . You'd think being local to us someone could have seen them playing for the reserves. How did Blackburn get him? They paid around 1.5mil for him when we were buying Fletcher / Braithwaite / Britt or paying 2mil to loan Hugill.

You can find them. We just don't. The one 'positive' of having no money means we may find a gem on the cheap.

Do I trust us to find one? I'm really not confident. I imagine the likes of Smith and Collins are 'safe' and free. They can slot straight in and low wages (by our standards).

 

[atypical_boro]

How would you feel about a striker who failed to make the grade at Celtic?

That's what Pukki was before he joined Norwich, and I can see the complaints about us being linked with such a player now.

The assumption is always that a striker will reproduce the sort of form he's shown before. Pukki is good evidence that that is nonsense. We need to find strikers who can produce more for us than they have at their previous clubs.

Above all, we must not fall into the fools trap of signing names. It may create a buzz during the off season, but there are 0 points given for that, and the buzz lasts 20 minutes into the first match if performance isn't good.

Spot on.

Also just to add we didn’t watch several hours of footage when we signed Slaven, he was a total punt. Imagine the reaction to that now!

Norwich too have fans all over the world as do most Championship clubs.

 

[HiredGun123]

Agree to an extent. Our club ethos and recruitment team and succession planning has failed in the last 5 years when you hold the system up for scrutiny against; Brentford, Norwich, Brighton and say Swansea
All clubs we feel are no where near as big as ourselves and yet have achieved a lot more or have very solid bases.
Seems to me we have put the training ground and facilities in place but forgotten about the art of recruitment in the 1st

It’s an art because you can pick up developing players too good for u23s but nurtured right are good enough to make an impact in the 1st team....

Bola, dikjsteel fit into this category and Browne to an extent but we need more of these

Maybe we are wrong in thinking certain clubs are nowhere near as big as ourselves. Probably over estimating the size of the club.

most people in the country won’t view us as a bigger club than Norwich at this point. Yeah we were an established PL club once, that was two decades ago.

i do feel the ambition and buzz has gone out of the club. The last time I felt the area was really invested in the club and there was a good feeling around it was Karanka’s championship side. Since we went down again, it feels like the club is treading water and very few people seem to even care. Even during the Mowbray and Strachan times, as dismal as it may have been, you still got the feeling the fans and local people cared about the side and there was a willingness to put things right and get back up to where we were.

now it just seems most have accepted the fact we’re a championship side with no real signs of kicking on. And I think the club has become an afterthought for a lot of people that used to be interested. But I think that’s only a reflection of the way the club are doing things and maybe a reality of where the club is at, financially, in terms of ambition, future plans etc.. there seems to be little of any, like it’s just existing.

at least that’s the impression I get from those I know.

 

[Middlesbrough123]

If a manager tried to find the next slaven and it didn’t work his time will be short lived . You could say woody bringing bola and dijksteel helped get him the sack yet now these players are playing regular for us .

 

[Blf]

Things are different now. When we went up under Robbo there were few players we couldnt go for other than those at the very top. Steve G made sure we were funded.
Steve is currently in the top 100 of the rich list. If we signed Haaland Steve G would have to put up every penny he has and borrow a other £60 million for transfer and wages.
The times they are a changing.

 

[Nosmo-King]

Maybe we are wrong in thinking certain clubs are nowhere near as big as ourselves. Probably over estimating the size of the club.

most people in the country won’t view us as a bigger club than Norwich at this point. Yeah we were an established PL club once, that was two decades ago.

i do feel the ambition and buzz has gone out of the club. The last time I felt the area was really invested in the club and there was a good feeling around it was Karanka’s championship side. Since we went down again, it feels like the club is treading water and very few people seem to even care. Even during the Mowbray and Strachan times, as dismal as it may have been, you still got the feeling the fans and local people cared about the side and there was a willingness to put things right and get back up to where we were.

now it just seems most have accepted the fact we’re a championship side with no real signs of kicking on. And I think the club has become an afterthought for a lot of people that used to be interested. But I think that’s only a reflection of the way the club are doing things and maybe a reality of where the club is at, financially, in terms of ambition, future plans etc.. there seems to be little of any, like it’s just existing.

at least that’s the impression I get from those I know.

Fans can be forgiven for the way we feel- you alluded to this being driven by the way we are being run and how expectations are being managed. We are whether we like it or not, a mid table side with limited players and as said it is difficult to be enthused about the players linked.

The club is a pale shadow of what we were. How can you be enthused when the reality is we have slid down the scale in terms of the team we were able to put out versus the team of today?

Lack of money, lack of direction, a lack of visible ambition are ingredients for fans to accept our lot. Sad situation

 

[atomicloonybin aka ALB]

I noted a couple of weeks ago that we finished 13 points off the playoffs (with a bunch of teams ahead of us also missing out) and a whopping 27 off the automatic spots. We have to get extraordinarily lucky in the next couple of months to have any chance of bridging that gap; finding a Toney, a Pukki or a Slaven and playing to his style. I still think that Monk was grasping toward some formation that would have got the best out of Britt, but then we bring in a bunch of long ball demons and insist on playing Britt in that format rather than biting the bullet and cashing in on him in favour of, I dunno, whoever the equivalent of Jordan Rhodes is. The losses we've made on these players are what's crippling us now.

I must admit, I was wondering yesterday what made the Thais invest in Leicester? Had they heard of them before that? Was it a flip of the coin that made that decision? Whatever, Gibbo is a millionaire who's been badly burnt competing against billionaires now. Just looking at all our record signings that Gibbo has obviously presided over, and you have to go down to 7th (Ugo) before you find a really successful one. We made a small profit on De Roon, and Massimo and Rhodes had their brief moments but Britt, Alves and Braithwaite were complete wastes given that we going to get nothing for Britt. Would you give a manager that kind of money again?

 

[indeedido]

Things are different now. When we went up under Robbo there were few players we couldnt go for other than those at the very top. Steve G made sure we were funded.
Steve is currently in the top 100 of the rich list. If we signed Haaland Steve G would have to put up every penny he has and borrow a other £60 million for transfer and wages.
The times they are a changing.

No he isn't.
You have to be a billionaire to make the top 100 in the UK rich list.
Steve was number 481 in the Sunday Times list 2020 valued at £270m or £60m more than the previous year. Given Boro lost £31m, Bulkhaul clearly had some year!
He is worth a touch more than Ringo Starr.

Your principle is right, Gibson is not massively wealthy by football club owner standards.
Neither is Delia Smith.

 

[jonny_greenings_sock]

I’ve always said that a club like us needs a USP something that sets us apart, this was Robbo ( a huge name) and the mclaren and again karanka ( his novelty value) it gave us that edge.

We did for a bit. First time managers, with connections to huge clubs either as players or as number 2, and “the best chairman in football” (I’ll put that in quotes).