Have we a better squad than we give credit to?

N

Nosmo-King

Well-known member
This thread largely brought on by Chris Hughton’s comments about the quality we have. I respect his opinion- he gives honest opinions and appraisals.

I do agree with him. Defence? Prone to the odd mistake but individually and collectively a pretty impressive bunch. Midfield? Howson, Tav, Sav and Morsy are a decent bunch of players.

Just 2 areas to work on- strikers and consistently. Not far away from being a competitive, organised, squad that is capable of getting results against the rest of the teams in the division.

We’re sitting pretty nicely as the business end of the season really starts.
 
Nosmo-King said:
This thread largely brought on by Chris Hughton’s comments about the quality we have. I respect his opinion- he gives honest opinions and appraisals.

I do agree with him. Defence? Prone to the odd mistake but individually and collectively a pretty impressive bunch. Midfield? Howson, Tav, Sav and Morsy are a decent bunch of players.

Just 2 areas to work on- strikers and consistently. Not far away from being a competitive, organised, squad that is capable of getting results against the rest of the teams in the division.

We’re sitting pretty nicely as the business end of the season really starts.
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The squad looks way better now because Warnock has got it playing well. Woodgate had it under-performing imho.

On paper its exactly the same. Its not the worst in the league by any means but it isn't good enough to get us in the top 2 I don't think. Top 6 would be an achievement simply because of the state we were in when he took over.
 
He inherited a group with some decent players in it but he has worked wonders, IMO. We always had a decent core in there somewhere but he's turned players like Bola and Dijksteel into two of the best full backs in the league. He's come in and tried to get wingers and strikers - which is what everyone has been saying we needed for years. In the meantime he's getting some really good stuff out of Tavernier and Johnson, and Watmore is a breath of fresh air.

I think he's created a team that is greater than the sum of its parts.

Look at the team for Woodgate's final game in charge:

Stojanovic
Howson, Shotton, Fry, Friend
McNair, Clayton, Wing
Nmecha, Gestede, Coulson

SUBS: Pears, Spence, Assombalonga, Saville, Tavernier, Roberts, Morrison, Johnson, Fletcher

Warnock has formed a better side out of the players Woodgate left on the bench for that game than Woodgate fashioned from a squad of about 33 seniors. I think people - other managers - are saying we have good players now because we have a team that functions properly and is set up to get the best out of each and every one of them.

Going slightly off topic as I haven't posted in ages but the job Warnock has done is absolutely remarkable. And I say that as someone who has never liked him and was really unhappy when he was appointed. But fair play to him, his work with Boro has been superb. I hope he sticks around.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
He inherited a group with some decent players in it but he has worked wonders, IMO. We always had a decent core in there somewhere but he's turned players like Bola and Dijksteel into two of the best full backs in the league. He's come in and tried to get wingers and strikers - which is what everyone has been saying we needed for years. In the meantime he's getting some really good stuff out of Tavernier and Johnson, and Watmore is a breath of fresh air.

I think he's created a team that is greater than the sum of its parts.

Look at the team for Woodgate's final game in charge:

Stojanovic
Howson, Shotton, Fry, Friend
McNair, Clayton, Wing
Nmecha, Gestede, Coulson

SUBS: Pears, Spence, Assombalonga, Saville, Tavernier, Roberts, Morrison, Johnson, Fletcher

Warnock has formed a better side out of the players Woodgate left on the bench for that game than Woodgate fashioned from a squad of about 33 seniors. I think people - other managers - are saying we have good players now because we have a team that functions properly and is set up to get the best out of each and every one of them.

Going slightly off topic as I haven't posted in ages but the job Warnock has done is absolutely remarkable. And I say that as someone who has never liked him and was really unhappy when he was appointed. But fair play to him, his work with Boro has been superb. I hope he sticks around.
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Welcome back viv!
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
He inherited a group with some decent players in it but he has worked wonders, IMO. We always had a decent core in there somewhere but he's turned players like Bola and Dijksteel into two of the best full backs in the league. He's come in and tried to get wingers and strikers - which is what everyone has been saying we needed for years. In the meantime he's getting some really good stuff out of Tavernier and Johnson, and Watmore is a breath of fresh air.

I think he's created a team that is greater than the sum of its parts.

Look at the team for Woodgate's final game in charge:

Stojanovic
Howson, Shotton, Fry, Friend
McNair, Clayton, Wing
Nmecha, Gestede, Coulson

SUBS: Pears, Spence, Assombalonga, Saville, Tavernier, Roberts, Morrison, Johnson, Fletcher

Warnock has formed a better side out of the players Woodgate left on the bench for that game than Woodgate fashioned from a squad of about 33 seniors. I think people - other managers - are saying we have good players now because we have a team that functions properly and is set up to get the best out of each and every one of them.

Going slightly off topic as I haven't posted in ages but the job Warnock has done is absolutely remarkable. And I say that as someone who has never liked him and was really unhappy when he was appointed. But fair play to him, his work with Boro has been superb. I hope he sticks around.
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Welcome !
 
it’s been a collective effort from everyone involved and to a man they have all bought into it. The fact players are signing long term contracts gives you the feeling they would run through brick walls for Warnock and to be fair they are. Anything’s possible this season, if we get a couple in I see no reason why Warnock and this group of players can’t get top 6. If you asked me this at 3 o’clock on Saturday after Birmingham I would of told you they were all ***** and Warnock needs to grow some eye brows.
 
Block21 said:
it’s been a collective effort from everyone involved and to a man they have all bought into it. The fact players are signing long term contracts gives you the feeling they would run through brick walls for Warnock and to be fair they are. Anything’s possible this season, if we get a couple in I see no reason why Warnock and this group of players can’t get top 6. If you asked me this at 3 o’clock on Saturday after Birmingham I would of told you they were all ***** and Warnock needs to grow some eye brows.
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Thats the nature of football fans, singing a players name one week, booing them from the field of play the next. We, probably unfairly, expect a very consistent level of form from our team, regardless of what else is going on in their lives.
 
I think potentially we do, but it's rock hard to tell ... there no doubting that without NW coming in though this bunch would be nowhere near in the league where we are now. The good thing is, he's certainly made them realise their potential, Tav, Dijksteel, Bola, and the rest .... it's why I hope we hold on to NW as long as we can until we strengthen. We absolutely made the right choice bringing him in, and I don't think he's lying when he's telling the media some of them are the best he's ever worked with just to bolster their confidence.

But as the season has gone along, the squad and players are where they are on merit, so they clearly have the ability. It's just having the right man to develop the younger ones in for as long as we can. For now, we certainly do.

I wish we could get a few more reinforcements in of quality this window, though that's looking very unlikely. Have to hope we stay relatively free of injury, especially to Howson and the likes ... as we're still going to be very thin on options as the games come thick and fast before the season ends.
 
The major issue for me was numbers you need 22 player squad nowadays in the Championship. In the past when the game was slower so teams had less injuries, less fatigue, less cards and fewer league games so a squad of say 19 could get you through.

If you have say 18 first teamers available, you can rotate a bit. Our first team squad at Watford for the first game was only 18 or 19 and I thought that would hit us later in the season. Howson, McNair, Tav always look very good - top 6 material last season.

Viv's Nana made a very valid point about playing as a team, having round players in round holes and everyone making space for each other and covering for each other.
 
Redwurzel said:
The major issue for me was numbers you need 22 player squad nowadays in the Championship. In the past when the game was slower so teams had less injuries, less fatigue, less cards and fewer league games so a squad of say 19 could get you through.

If you have say 18 first teamers available, you can rotate a bit. Our first team squad at Watford for the first game was only 18 or 19 and I thought that would hit us later in the season. Howson, McNair, Tav always look very good - top 6 material last season.

Viv's Nana made a very valid point about playing as a team, having round players in round holes and everyone making space for each other and covering for each other.
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I'd agree with that. I think our starting 11 is very good. A better striker and a good winger and arguably capable of top 2.

Strength in depth is the concern. There's a bit of a drop from Morsy, Howson, Saville to Lewis Wing. You can drop Tav in there I suppose but then you miss him further up the pitch.

Not sure Hall can be relied on fitness wise. So it's Wood (who looks like an outstanding prospect but is only 18) or shifting Dijksteel into the middle.

Doesn't really allow us to rotate much because to do so in many of the positions would make us a much weaker side.
 
The first XI last night is by far our strongest team but after that we are very light. Marvin Johnson has ’done a job’ and Fletcher improved last year in my opinion. Spence is strange as he is not got enough defensively to be a right back and can’t beat a man or put in a decent cross to be a right winger so not good enough for me, similarly with Coulson. Grant Hall was a liability in his games so not worried about him being out for a long period. I’d rather give Wood game time.

If anyone gets injured or suspended from last nights first XI then we are considerably weaker in my opinion and that is why we will finish just above top half unless we get 3/4 players in before the end of the month, especially up front.
 
Togetherness in a squad will counter numbers and skill, that is the key difference under Warnock, he’s not just improved players individually but installed a collective spirit which has given us a platform to go forward with in the second half of the season, Fletcher returning will is a big boost going into the latter part of the season, and the odd blip aside our performances have been good not just our results.

We have a system of play that makes us hard to beat but dangerous in attack, that little bit extra that Fletcher can bring means we should certainly be around the play off places, I think top two is beyond us unless we go on a long unbeaten run which is a big ask.
 
Will be interesting to see if we can bring a couple in. Would be a good boost especially if we can get some more wins in the mean time.
 
We have decent quality, but a lack of options and numbers and a lack of quality out wide and up top. But defensively, energy, out of the possession quality, yes we do all right. A couple of game changers and this team could fly. Imagine a Merson or Gaston to join our midfield and attack, or a Ripley quality of running with the ball or a Bamford quality CF we would batter teams.
 
I was thinking a similar thing the other day BoroMart - but was thinking of Adomah and/or Bamford added to this current side. We'd be nailed on for the play offs.

I'd be hopeful he could get something out of Bolasie if he joins us but it's a big ask. He hasn't been playing much lately and has had bad injuries. I'd love to know why he didn't sign in the summer window. Another six months of his career wasted right there.
 
I think Mr. Houghton's comments were more directed at the shortcoming of the Forest squad than admiration for ours. We are paperthin, look at how much we are perked up by a good performance by Britt and the return of Howson.
 
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