Ham and Egg sandwich

Notanothermoaningborofan said:
The clubs balance sheets have certainly improved.

Akpom - worthless before Carrick and likelihood would have been released for free. Got what £12m

Rogers - wouldn’t have had a sniff at signing him and developing him into a £16m sale. Can’t say he was developed before as we paid £1m.

Lathe - loads of seasons dotting around the European lower leagues doing nothing. Bring him in for £6m gets him playing and scoring becoming £22m sale.

Hackney - 100% Carrick has developed him into the player he is today and what would you say he’s worth to the club? Maybe £15-20m, possibly more depending on he and the club want things to go.

Now I’m not suggesting he found any of these players but he 100% coached them and played them to their strengths making them desirable players and expensive ones at that. The club has been made much more financially secure as a result. Only other manager I can think of who managed to get more for a player than we paid other than robson with Juninho would be pulis with Traore.
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Yeah I agree with all of that, I don’t doubt at all he is a very good coach as the above proves, but as a manager I’m not so sure. Yes individuals have improved but as a squad we are going backwards year on year under Carrick.
Although a lot of this isn’t on the manager, he does need to go for me, but a new manager still won’t change the biggest issues at the club
 
Block21 said:
Just watched his post match stuff. Looks like he's not even that arsed to me.
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Definitely can’t agree with that, think he is one of the few managers we have had that does properly care about the club
I think it’s just a realisation that whatever he’s doing just isn’t working and he doesn’t know how to turn things around
 
His team, on occasions, play some wonderful football. Not enough occasions.

He is clearly a good coach of attacking midfielders.

He has not addressed glaring defensive deficiencies in 2 seasons. The goals we concede are laughable (Preston).

The team is soft centred and easily hustled out of games (I don't think of it as being bullied).

We are one dimensional, with no ability it seems to adapt to in game situations. 4 points chucked down the pan against Sheff Wed and Norwich.

In game management is none existent.

i think all of the above could be classed as facts.

In my opinion , we started this season with an excellent spine ...Dieng, RVB, Hackney, Lath. The latter 3 some of the highest rated players in their respective positions in the league. Anything other than the play offs is abject failure.
 
JM14 said:
Definitely can’t agree with that, think he is one of the few managers we have had that does properly care about the club
I think it’s just a realisation that whatever he’s doing just isn’t working and he doesn’t know how to turn things around
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Got to disagree.
 
Jonny Ingbar said:
They are, I'm not convinced he can take us any further forward, I really am undecided, but I think a huge part of the decision is who is available to replace him.

I'd love to see him succeed because he seems to be a very decent person and that's important for me, but the evidence suggests the odds are against him.
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This is where I am, really. After the likes of Warnock & Wilder, he's been a breath of fresh air in so many ways, But some decisions he makes/doesn't make are baffling, and despite the apparent team spirit/togetherness, he doesn't appear to be able to generate consistent performances. Even without the injuries does he know who is best defence is?
We still have an outside chance and you never know but as soon as the second half began yesterday the writing was on the wall. Panic, inviting them on, the inevitable goal from a drop-down, subs too late, feeble failure to get back.
If we make the play-offs but fail, I'd give him one more season for sure. If we fall short then it would kind of depend how we fall short. Last season we ended well so it gave us hope - we put failure down to the terrible start. This season the weaknesses we overlooked last year have been there again...
 
I think so. Because a bad start to the season or a run like this year would mean he’s likely to get bulleted anyway, and then that’s the season wrote off effectively whilst a new manager sorts us out.
 
Carrick is Stan Anderson……..but where is our Jackie Charlton that can finish the job?

I think Carrick will walk if we don’t make the play offs.
 
I just can’t cope with his in game management. It is absolutely terrible. I can’t see past it. How he never reacted to them going to 2 up front and getting a foothold in the game is mind blowing.

I have had enough of Michael Carrick as Boro manager.

I’m fuming this morning. Absolutely gutted with that yesterday. It was must win for me.
 
Notanothermoaningborofan said:
no im a realist and seeing my club as a championship is not mediocrity its the 2nd league in the country and we are currently sitting 28th out of 92 teams in league football with many more teams bellow that. So you say mediocrity I prefer to view it differently. In your mind you won't be happy till we win the premier league and that's never going to happen so rather than dream the impossible dream I choose accept that my team is playing the level of football that is fitting for the size of club. i'm not saying we will never go to the premier league again but unless something changes massively in football and the way the system works or we suddenly have a Saudi nation backing us we will never be an established premier league side again, those days have gone.

I also don't accuse people of being moaners for having ambition, people are moaning because they have had a manager for 2.5 years and he hasn't brought them to the premier league yet. that's more of an attitude of a spoilt brat than ambition. stomping their feet because they haven't got their way and trying to make loads of noise and shout the loudest. peoples attitudes have changed across the board, when I was a kid not many people bought new cars and when they did they saved and kept it for a long time. now everyones leasing cars to make them look richer than they are and buying new iPhones every year because the new ones out with a 1MP more camera than the old one or it has a new colour its ridiculous and for me its the same with fans. they want all the success now no matter the cost to the club.

just look through the facts of how hard it is and how big the gulf is now from championship to premier league. Southampton had a great season last year and this year they have 10 points, 2 wins and 77 goals conceded and it's only going to get worse.

over the last 10 years out of the three clubs that have been promoted at least 1 has been relegated but more often than not it has been two but more recently its been all three. it use to be one could potentially survive but going on the trends of the last two seasons those days are over.
22/23 season - burnley(101), sheffield Utd(91) and luton(80) got promoted. 23/24 season - burnley(24), sheffield Utd(18) and luton(26) got relegated.
23/24 season - Leicester(97), Ipswich(96) and Southampton(87) got promoted. 24/25 season - Leicester(18), Ipswich(20) and Southampton(10) getting relegated.

it use to be if you got 40 points you were safe, now promoted teams are struggling to get 26 points after walking the championship with this season being lucky to get more than 20.

as long as the club existed I couldn't give a monkeys what league we were in to be honest. I support Boro not the league or teams they play. many fans support teams like York, darlington and hartlepool are they not meant to because of the league they play in?

im not sure the odds are against him to be honest. Gibson doesn't make rash decision and if Carrick is showing commitment to the club, we are making profits from players and he still believes in him which despite what others think I believe he does. Gibson is a business man and season ticket sales are not going to make massive changes as you will always have the supporters who will go no matter what and will have renewed their tickets anyway not knowing if he will be there or not as its the early bird prices.

once again your basing your improving on what evidence? we can still finish in more points than last season and in a higher league position depending on results so your just making stuff up now. also with that your not accounting for what he's had to deal with in injuries and sale of his top scoring forward. Gibson is a business man and will take that into account and not jump into sacking someone for the sake of it. We will see what happens in the summer.
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Terrible take

You think Brentford, Bournemouth Fulham, Palace, Ipswich, Wolves are all much bigger clubs than ours? They all have Saudi money?

Or are they well run clubs that don’t accept mediocrity?

Have they all had relatively unknown managers and made changes when it was right to do so?

I hate this Boro attitude of it is what it is and be happy with what we have got, have some ambition and pride in your club, we can be so much better than we currently are and should be striving for it
 
Some very emotional responses on this thread.

I much prefer Carrick to Wilder, Strachan and Pulis. At least Carrick wants Boro to play a bit of football. This season has been massively disappointing and criticism is fair to the coaching staff. Some things though are totally out of their control. Injuries and stupid player mistakes being the biggest.
 
Nero said:
Some things though are totally out of their control. Injuries and stupid player mistakes being the biggest.
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I don’t think that is true. A well drilled defence doesn’t make the number of mistakes we do. Some of it is just amateur hour. Look at the ridiculous free kick RVB gave away at the beginning of the 2nd half yesterday. They didn’t score but gave them the momentum and blue print to beat us. Karanka would have hauled him off and dropped him. That’s just one example, there are countless others.

Re injuries, do you honestly believe it’s just bad luck? Are Fry, Forss, Mcgree, RVB, Lenihan etc suddenly going to have an injury free season?
 
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It's hard to know at the moment how much of our issues are down to recruitmdnt, injuries, tactics, training, and in game management. All seem to be a factor.

I really don't know what percentage improvement a set of coaches would bring. I'm sure Scott will think Carrick should have done better. But they need to think whether Carrick is going to get better. If not they will get rid. If they think he is learning or that additional coaches will help, they will stick.

My gut instinct is he leaves in the summer and early - as soon as our season is over. And that a replacement comes in early too.

I do want us to get in the play offs as it would show overall progress. Regardless of how we do in them we at least have a chance.

Going to be a long wait until Saturday. Lots of pressure on Carrick. I suspect we will see changes as he said they stuck with same tactics on Saturday due 'playing well'. I think they will change on Saturday.
 
Block21 said:
I just can’t cope with his in game management. It is absolutely terrible. I can’t see past it. How he never reacted to them going to 2 up front and getting a foothold in the game is mind blowing.

I have had enough of Michael Carrick as Boro manager.

I’m fuming this morning. Absolutely gutted with that yesterday. It was must win for me.
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I’m more concerned in his interview post match he said that Millwall didn’t change shape after half time? What was he watching? It was obvious they went to 442 and were more direct, then said he expected it, but didn’t do anything to counter it in the slightest
 
CoulbyBoro said:
I’m more concerned in his interview post match he said that Millwall didn’t change shape after half time? What was he watching? It was obvious they went to 442 and were more direct, then said he expected it, but didn’t do anything to counter it in the slightest
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Bordering on incompetence
 
Nero said:
Some very emotional responses on this thread.
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Yeah, it's understandable. We could all see that Leeds then Millwall was a tricky period but two defeats, no goals really seems fatal this morning. No two ways, Plymouth is a must-win and then we're hoping for favours. A loss or even a draw and things may well turn nasty. Gibson may feel obliged to act. It's the manner of the defeats that's getting to people as much as anything, the feebleness
 
Alzi said:
I don’t think that is true. A well drilled defence doesn’t make the number of mistakes we do. Some of it is just amateur hour. Look at the ridiculous free kick RVB gave away at the beginning of the 2nd half yesterday. They didn’t score but gave them the momentum and blue print to beat us. Karanka would have hauled him off and dropped him. That’s just one example, there are countless others.

Re injuries, do you honestly believe it’s just bad luck? Are Fry, Forss, Mcgree, RVB, Lenihan etc suddenly going to have an injury free season?
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It’s a good point about defending. It could very well be training doesn’t focus enough on that.

For injury though. Not sure what any coach can do when dealing with constant injuries two seasons in a row.
 
There's no way he'll go before the end of the season, either sacked or walked. Yesterday we dominated possession and clearly were the better footballing side, but we cannot match teams physicality and 'wanting it more', clearly Carrick is a great coach but not sure he can get the team to turn up in big games.
 
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