Gibson

[Paulh10]

Why can’t some people have a debate on Gibson without immediately going to this level of stupidity

Don’t comment on todays game then unless you have ever played football at professional level and certainly don’t comment on the manager as none of us have ever managed a championship side

Also look at the last few years just to see why he has to put so much of his own money into the club just to keep it afloat, it’s mainly down to his own mistakes. How many other well run clubs rely on their owner throwing millions at them so they don’t go under? It’s not sustainable and certainly not something we should be lining up to thank him for

Finally a sensible realistic response.

 

[Paulh10]

You've already responded to me.

You know what I mean

 

[Paulh10]

Thank God somebody is keeping us afloat!
Most clubs can’t afford to compete these days, so there is no shame in that.

But the guy isn't capable of running the the club no more.To many bad decisions it's so obvious.

 

[Chris_Boro]

You know what I mean

Please enlighten everyone to those with very deep pockets lining up to buyout Gibson?

While you're at it, also please explain from a business sense why the above would do so.

It's a "typical" answer because it happens to be that the mythical millionaires don't exist.

 

[Paulh10]

Yes, because multimillionaires are just lining up to take over us.

Mel Morris is free I believe.

Forget about Mel Morris he is just another pointless bad example be real and judge it on the situation we are in.In the real world.

 

[the_holgate_roof]

I`l throw my threepence worth in>>>>>

8 Managers [ncluding Karanka] since 2017!
That includes care-takers.
That alone tells us a story doesnt it?
It tells of poor decision making and desperation.
Its the elephant in the room.
Are people seriously suggesting Manager no.9 would be a good idea?

Lets just look at the bigger picture:

We cant compete with big money.
We know the Chairman services our debts - so is it time to completely restructure the club?
Is it time to go down a different route?
Time for the old guard to step aside?
We`ve had more shake-outs in players and Managers than flees in an old dog-blanket.
Nothing has changed.
Perhaps the board needs a "shake-out" instead of Managers and players?
Lets cut our cloth according to what we can afford - hand outs have to cease sometime.
Perhaps its that financial double-bind which is holding us back?

Our club like every other is a business.
Difficult times or not - there are many ways to [Macro] Manage a business.
We wont have to take down the picture of Juno from the Chairman`s toilet door or remove the red carpet from the janitors cupboard - but maybe sharing the responsibility - perhaps with other investors - may be an answer?

We wont force that change, but there`s nothing wrong with ongoing constructive criticism and having serious debate and exchange of considered opinions.
We know what we want - a winning team - who entertain and keep the town and the area on the map.
But, the current economic climate will definitely have an effect on revenue streams - attendances - especially as the cold and winter approaches.
Add to that our current plight and it wouldnt be beyond reallity to see our crowds back to those of the Mowbray period?
Chris said on Friday he knows loss of faith and trust is "understandable" - because we arent delivering.

Recruitment is clearly a major obstacle inside the club - not just about the recent transfer window - its a pattern over a period of time.
Chris Wilder appears to have started to challenge that - but he cant turn the oil tanker round on his own.

We dont have insider information or detailed knowledge of why or how the "Club" [Steve-Gibson] behaves the way it does.
What is absolutely clear is that the ship which took us from Ayresome Park to the heady heights of the Premiership and the Carling Cup - needs a major refit.

Our disappointment as fans are results.
Wilder has always been a "winner".
Do we seriously think HE is THE "problem"?
He said on Friday - "I`ve not turned into a ridiculously poor manager overnight"
Was the team picked yesterday the reason for 8 Managers in 5 years or the fact we were nearly relegated only three years ago?

Just some thoughts to chew over.
We need to back the Manager and the lads.

Screaming at the monkey ignores the organ grinder!

Roll on Brum.
UTMB

But what if there is a disconnect between manager and players, not saying there is, just throwing in a scenario, what if the situation has become untenable, how long do you soldier on, we saw how long Sunderland went into the wilderness of league 1, no team is too big to go down, teams like Ipswich, Sheff Wed, Portsmouth all down there. I really don’t know the answer and I agree, that Wilder doesn’t become a bad manager overnight and these players do not become bad players overnight, something is clearly not right behind the scenes, worrying times.

 

[Paulh10]

Please enlighten everyone to those with very deep pockets lining up to buyout Gibson?

While you're at it, also please explain from a business sense why the above would do so.

It's a "typical" answer because it happens to be that the mythical millionaires don't exist.

I'm not in a position to explain.If I was I'd be advising Gibson to sell.

 

[r00fie1]

But what if there is a disconnect between manager and players, not saying there is, just throwing in a scenario, what if the situation has become untenable, how long do you soldier on, we saw how long Sunderland went into the wilderness of league 1, no team is too big to go down, teams like Ipswich, Sheff Wed, Portsmouth all down there. I really don’t know the answer and I agree, that Wilder doesn’t become a bad manager overnight and these players do not become bad players overnight, something is clearly not right behind the scenes, worrying times.

Agreed.
Dont know how its got to this stage - but I cant understand how inconsistent some of the players are?
Even under the previous Manager, for example, McNair and Fry just didnt perform at times.
Maybe its complacency?
Baffling.

 

[h_m_boro]

Everyone has their opinions, and rightfully so .....but some of the comments on here

What do people want? I take it it a mystery owner/investor riding in with a suitcase full of ill gotten gains.....but hey, principles and morals out of the window so long as we spaff millions on players. Join the ride, see where it ends up?

Oh hang on, FFP stops us doing this so......

Look at football over the past 12 years since we left the PL. The number of dodgy owners. Clubs going to the wall. Healthy well run clubs sliding out of the football league into obscurity. Transfer fees, wages and agents fees off the chart. People want to risk all of this stability chasing the PL dream? F*ck that.

Gibson has made a lot of mistakes, absolutely no doubt. Some of his managerial decisions have been poor. Some have been good but haven't worked out. Even bigger clubs than us have made worse decisions......so he's definitely not unique.

Many things he's done/doing I don't agree with. He's not perfect. Things are not right within the club. But to risk this "stability" on some gadge with a bag of magic beans and a load of unrealistic promises? Nah, not for me.

I've seen closely what happens when this goes badly wrong (Stockport County) and the damage it does and how long it takes to get back to the point pre slide. I don't want this to happen to Boro, ever. And I believe Gibson (off the back of 1986) feels the same.

Where we go from now, its a concern. But to change owner on a hope and prayer things work out?

 

[fassy]

He’s lauded for servicing the debt, but completely devoid of any link the continued cause of the debt. The man is Teflon.

 

[Glover_elbow]

I`l throw my threepence worth in>>>>>

8 Managers [ncluding Karanka] since 2017!
That includes care-takers.
That alone tells us a story doesnt it?
It tells of poor decision making and desperation.
Its the elephant in the room.
Are people seriously suggesting Manager no.9 would be a good idea?

Lets just look at the bigger picture:

We cant compete with big money.
We know the Chairman services our debts - so is it time to completely restructure the club?
Is it time to go down a different route?
Time for the old guard to step aside?
We`ve had more shake-outs in players and Managers than flees in an old dog-blanket.
Nothing has changed.
Perhaps the board needs a "shake-out" instead of Managers and players?
Lets cut our cloth according to what we can afford - hand outs have to cease sometime.
Perhaps its that financial double-bind which is holding us back?

Our club like every other is a business.
Difficult times or not - there are many ways to [Macro] Manage a business.
We wont have to take down the picture of Juno from the Chairman`s toilet door or remove the red carpet from the janitors cupboard - but maybe sharing the responsibility - perhaps with other investors - may be an answer?

We wont force that change, but there`s nothing wrong with ongoing constructive criticism and having serious debate and exchange of considered opinions.
We know what we want - a winning team - who entertain and keep the town and the area on the map.
But, the current economic climate will definitely have an effect on revenue streams - attendances - especially as the cold and winter approaches.
Add to that our current plight and it wouldnt be beyond reallity to see our crowds back to those of the Mowbray period?
Chris said on Friday he knows loss of faith and trust is "understandable" - because we arent delivering.

Recruitment is clearly a major obstacle inside the club - not just about the recent transfer window - its a pattern over a period of time.
Chris Wilder appears to have started to challenge that - but he cant turn the oil tanker round on his own.

We dont have insider information or detailed knowledge of why or how the "Club" [Steve-Gibson] behaves the way it does.
What is absolutely clear is that the ship which took us from Ayresome Park to the heady heights of the Premiership and the Carling Cup - needs a major refit.

Our disappointment as fans are results.
Wilder has always been a "winner".
Do we seriously think HE is THE "problem"?
He said on Friday - "I`ve not turned into a ridiculously poor manager overnight"
Was the team picked yesterday the reason for 8 Managers in 5 years or the fact we were nearly relegated only three years ago?

Just some thoughts to chew over.
We need to back the Manager and the lads.

Screaming at the monkey ignores the organ grinder!

Roll on Brum.
UTMB

I completely disagree roofie when relationships go beyond what can be repaired ie they are toxic for all sides then it's best to move on. That's the way i see it with wilder he's lost respect of the players who clearly don't want him here by their actions on the pitch and who can blame them after he's publicly humiliated them game after game. His petulant attitude of isolation to some signings his declared as development is another clear illustration the relationship with the hierarchy is also broken. Things are not going to improve under wilder.

The bottom line is yes 8 managers in a row the decision making has been woeful but you can't influence Gibson or the club's poor methods without removing gibson. The only hope we of have of improving is changing the manager and getting a better fit with the club's strategy. We have a deep controlling chairman and a manager in wilder who wants complete decision making autonomy it's just not going to improve and was never going to work. We should cut are losses and hope Gibson can appoint someone who will appreciate and actively engage with Kieran Scott and the recruitment model. I don't think we have any other choice but go the development route Gibson can't compete financially even with the top of the championship anymore.

 

[Otto42]

Nicely put. I have no answers to what is needed apart from a white knight on a horse riding in with a big fat cheque. That’s not going to happen so my expectations are sadly lower than they were when we could compete financially. For me the biggest error was wasting our time in the PL in 2016-17 when we stunk the place out. That was the opportunity to improve finances and we failed because of poor management both team and club wise.

Agree with all of that, particularly the mistake of wasting the promotion windfall, we similarly wasted an opportunity in 2006. For me it’s been a series of knee jerk or inappropriate decisions since then. As for now we either hold our nerve and stick to our model, even if that means relegation and bringing in a head coach rather than a manager, if the current one can’t or won’t subscribe to that. The alternative is more knee jerk, bring in Dyche or Allardyce and we are back here in 12 to 18 months.

 

[equaliser]

I was cross with Gibson after his infamous "smash this league" statement - and crosser when he outed himself as a Tory supporter after being staunch Labour all his life. But he has always done his best by the club and I'd rather the club was in the safe hands of a fellow fan than some foreign chancer looking for a quick buck. If there's a billionaire Boro fan out there who can take us back to the big time, then please step forward. Until then...

As for signing players the managers don't want, where's the evidence Wilder didn't want Forss, for instance? Maybe he isn't playing him because he's now seen him in training. Wilder definitely wanted Lenihan, Steffen and Clarke, and none of them look all that, to say the least. Ultimately, Gibson has backed a succession of managers with his own money down the years and most have failed to deliver.

Not getting Strand Larsen/Gyokeres was a big blow, and losing Tavernier was even bigger, but why didn't Wilder line up a replacement? Mowatt? Another poor signing.

Personally, I think Wilder isn't managing to inspire his players and doesn't know his best team. He's also tactically inflexible. Perhaps one win might turn things round - it's not as if there are lots of outstanding teams in the Championship - but unless we win on Wednesday, and then start to pick up results, I think he should go.

If he does, I hope Gibson appoints someone with a warm nature, like Klopp, not a sour-faced individual like Karanka or Wilder. Warnock had that element, but he was a tactical dinosaur. Modern managers combine both things.

 

[Chris_Boro]

Forget about Mel Morris he is just another pointless bad example be real and judge it on the situation we are in.In the real world.

That's the third time you've replied to the same message???

You make no sense at all, the real world is full of people like Mel Morris. People like him are in the majority, the Gibsons are very very much the minority.

 

[Chris_Boro]

I'm not in a position to explain.If I was I'd be advising Gibson to sell.

If you're not in a position to explain then you're not in a position to advise either.

You're ignoring reality to live in the grass is greener mentally. If you're happy to risk the future existence of the club to chase the dream then simply admit that.

 

[Glover_elbow]

I was cross with Gibson after his infamous "smash this league" statement - and crosser when he outed himself as a Tory supporter after being staunch Labour all his life. But he has always done his best by the club and I'd rather the club was in the safe hands of a fellow fan than some foreign chancer looking for a quick buck. If there's a billionaire Boro fan out there who can take us back to the big time, then please step forward. Until then...

As for signing players the managers don't want, where's the evidence Wilder didn't want Forss, for instance? Maybe he isn't playing him because he's now seen him in training. Wilder definitely wanted Lenihan, Steffen and Clarke, and none of them look all that, to say the least. Ultimately, Gibson has backed a succession of managers with his own money down the years and most have failed to deliver.

Not getting Strand Larsen/Gyokeres was a big blow, and losing Tavernier was even bigger, but why didn't Wilder line up a replacement? Mowatt? Another poor signing.

Personally, I think Wilder isn't managing to inspire his players and doesn't know his best team. He's also tactically inflexible. Perhaps one win might turn things round - it's not as if there are lots of outstanding teams in the Championship - but unless we win on Wednesday, and then start to pick up results, I think he should go.

If he does, I hope Gibson appoints someone with a warm nature, like Klopp, not a sour-faced individual like Karanka or Wilder. Warnock had that element, but he was a tactical dinosaur. Modern managers combine both things.

Wilder had a choice when the window failed to deliver what he needed, get on with it or bitch and snipe like a diva and poison the atmosphere at the club. He's taken the later option

 

[Paulh10]

I remember his bizarre comments about Stockton people being Sunderland supporters.

 

[JM14]

See Newcastle for example.

I agree about the loss of players, but I don't see that as being the responsibility of Gibson. We tied to hold on to Tav and *HE* wanted the move. I don't know what happened and to my knowledge neither does anyone else, but that blame lies with Gibson alone?

We needed to invest - again I agree but you seem certain that was Gibson again and not the fact players wanted to move elsewhere - evidence please. As for changing the manager - it is quite often true that there is a bounce with a new manager's inception - though not always.

As far as the stupidity comment goes, you reap what you sow old chap my critique is just as valid as yours with no context.

Gibson supports the club and I support it too, mistakes have been made but they are not all of his making. We've supposedly had Warnock sorting out all of those background issues so what happened there? Are you in the know - speak to him directly and can vouchsafe his involvement in everything?

Specifically what values though? I don’t see the club having different values to a club like Sunderland for example who have foreign ownership. If only he had the values not to price 3/4 of the region out of attending games you might have a point

No it’s not Gibson’s fault that we lost Tav but that’s not the issue. It’s a theme over the last few years on signing the wrong players for huge transfer fees with barely any sell on value, often players that come with huge wages on long contracts that the club end up stick wit’s. See Downing, Assombalonga, Fletcher to name a few.

At the moment we seem to be content filling the squad with loan players with big wages then having to do a full scale rebuild every summer when they inevitably leave, this is what ends up leaving us short every summer as we just can’t get the players in the timescale we need. We go into the season unprepared which ends up with us underperforming and the manager being sacked.

We are using this new recruitment model with zero cohesion between manager and staff, with again means half of the players we have signed this summer the manager doesn’t even want

If you think he is doing well just look at how many players we have actually made a profit on in recent years. Thankfully the only bit of success came with Karanka when Kenyon was here, without that premier league money I really dread to think where we would be today

 

[boroboy6872]

So how much money would a potential new owner need to find to buy the club?

 

[newyddion]

We are using this new recruitment model with zero cohesion between manager and staff, with again means half of the players we have signed this summer the manager doesn’t even want

That cannot be true, Wilder is very much part of recruitment surely