Genders

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Pembroke said:
Context would have to apply to everyday life.

If you are a male, and decide to identify as a female and enter a female single sex space could you break the law?

Do you think you can identify as what you want as a carer and provide intimate care to an individual?
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No not really, and as B_I_D said, its murky ground for a lot of people. As long as people aren't malicious, I think murkiness is ok.
 
atypical_boro said:
No not really, and as B_I_D said, its murky ground for a lot of people. As long as people aren't malicious, I think murkiness is ok.
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A male entering a female only space by accident, then leaving after realsing their mistake would not be malicious. A male using a female only space knowingly is malicious - The space and the reasons for its existence, rights to dignity, privacy and safety have to be compromised.

Murky means morally questionable. Creating morally questionable safeguards for females is ok? Ok, for anybody?
 
Pembroke said:
A male entering a female only space by accident, then leaving after realsing their mistake would not be malicious. A male using a female only space knowingly is malicious - The space and the reasons for its existence, rights to dignity, privacy and safety have to be compromised.

Murky means morally questionable. Creating morally questionable safeguards for females is ok? Ok, for anybody?
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I'm not really sure about the whole trans people using female toilets etc thing, I can see both sides of the argument.

What I do know is that nobody should be getting bullied over this stuff or worse. People should be able to disagree respectfully with no malice. I appreciate the world doesn't always work like that though.
 
atypical_boro said:
I'm not really sure about the whole trans people using female toilets etc thing, I can see both sides of the argument.
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At present the majority of people identifying as trans women have no right to use female toilets. Would you disagree with this?

atypical_boro said:
What I do know is that nobody should be getting bullied over this stuff or worse. People should be able to disagree respectfully with no malice. I appreciate the world doesn't always work like that though.
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Your answer if no should not expose you to bullying, cancelling etc.
 
Pembroke said:
At present the majority of people identifying as trans women have no right to use female toilets. Would you disagree with this?


Your answer if no should not expose you to bullying, cancelling etc.
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No I wouldn't disagree with that, but I'm also not passionately arguing that no trans woman should ever enter a female toilet.
 
atypical_boro said:
No I wouldn't disagree with that,
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Your original post was that people could identify as they want in everyday life.
atypical_boro said:
that no trans woman should ever enter a female toilet.
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If trans women are women, and self ID becomes law more is affected than entering a female toilet. The recent absurd case of Adam/Isla the rapist who is a women is an example of where ignoring biological reality goes. Trans women are women, or they are not.
 
Pembroke said:
Your original post was that people could identify as they want in everyday life.


If trans women are women, and self ID becomes law more is affected than entering a female toilet. The recent absurd case of Adam/Isla the rapist who is a women is an example of where ignoring biological reality goes. Trans women are women, or they are not.
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Well I have said a few times during these debates that I think self-identification isn't always the same as how other people perceive you and I think some cohorts of society may have to try and accept that. I have never argued for self-ID becoming law.
 
There is no specific law against men entering/using a womens' toilet. There is no law against trans women using a womens' toilet. If they are using that toilet because they identify as women there is not a problem.
There is a problem if someone, no matter how they identify, enters a womens' toilet to harrass, assault, abuse, commit an inappropriate sexual ect etc. The law can intervene here, not because of gender identification, but because of unlawful behaviour.

There's a good deal of trans-phobia dressed up as rationale in this thread.
 
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