Garbage

[atypical_boro]

A couple of points in the cold light of day. Firstly England were bad last night and more on that in a bit. Secondly to blame personnel or team selection or formation is clutching at straws.

England should be able to pick any of their first 14 or 15 and play better against a team of Scotlands ability. It wasn't the team selection nor the formation.

Scotland played like 10 outfield players who were playing as a team. They did not allow gaps to appear between their lines. They moved forward and attacked as a team and dropped as a team but never too deep.

Tactically Scotland got it spot on.

England with the 11 players that started or the 11 players that ended the game should have done better.

There had been some nonsense about it being Scotland final and they were bound to raise their game.... These are professional footballers. Anyone who thinks that Scotland were more up for it than England are either wrong or you need to find another country to support. An England national team that can't get up to play Scotland isn't an England team. I'll leave the England fans to decide which it was.

On the individual players. Kane is clearly not right and needs dropping and if he has been training like that he should be nowhere near the pitch for England.

Southgate should have changed things more. The changes he made were in effective but they would have been in effective whatever changes he had made. England were too slow and that never changed in the 90 minutes at any time. They're was 10 minutes at the start where England created a couple of chances and 10 minutes in the second half. That's not good enough against a team like Scotland.

Is Gareth Southgate tactically useless? Of course he isn't. He was let down by the players endeavour. You may disagree with the team selection but grealish made no difference, not 1 bit.

Once the players had laboured for an hour with no real spark or desire to put their bodies on the line there was nothing Southgate could do to change that with 5 substitutes.

Did Southgate give the players the wrong messaging? I don't know, but I would have to doubt that.

England were poor Scotland were excellent and deserved to win the game.

Not sure you can play the performance at Southgate's feet entirely the players on the pitch have to take a lot of responsability.

Scotland got it spot on? They didn’t score and now need to beat the World Cup finalists to stand a chance of qualifying.

No offence but I think a lot of Scottish folk are getting a bit carried away about a goalless draw.

 

[LowMoorBoro]

A couple of points in the cold light of day. Firstly England were bad last night and more on that in a bit. Secondly to blame personnel or team selection or formation is clutching at straws.

England should be able to pick any of their first 14 or 15 and play better against a team of Scotlands ability. It wasn't the team selection nor the formation.

Scotland played like 10 outfield players who were playing as a team. They did not allow gaps to appear between their lines. They moved forward and attacked as a team and dropped as a team but never too deep.

Tactically Scotland got it spot on.

England with the 11 players that started or the 11 players that ended the game should have done better.

There had been some nonsense about it being Scotland final and they were bound to raise their game.... These are professional footballers. Anyone who thinks that Scotland were more up for it than England are either wrong or you need to find another country to support. An England national team that can't get up to play Scotland isn't an England team. I'll leave the England fans to decide which it was.

On the individual players. Kane is clearly not right and needs dropping and if he has been training like that he should be nowhere near the pitch for England.

Southgate should have changed things more. The changes he made were in effective but they would have been in effective whatever changes he had made. England were too slow and that never changed in the 90 minutes at any time. They're was 10 minutes at the start where England created a couple of chances and 10 minutes in the second half. That's not good enough against a team like Scotland.

Is Gareth Southgate tactically useless? Of course he isn't. He was let down by the players endeavour. You may disagree with the team selection but grealish made no difference, not 1 bit.

Once the players had laboured for an hour with no real spark or desire to put their bodies on the line there was nothing Southgate could do to change that with 5 substitutes.

Did Southgate give the players the wrong messaging? I don't know, but I would have to doubt that.

England were poor Scotland were excellent and deserved to win the game.

Not sure you can play the performance at Southgate's feet entirely the players on the pitch have to take a lot of responsability.

Your probably right it might not have made the difference, it’s that Southgate didn’t try to change things up when it clearly wasn’t working was the issue to me.
Just try something else, if it doesn’t work at least you’ve learnt that.

I think saying England played like that to try and finish second is giving them too much credit. It wasn’t as though they controlled the game and looked comfortable.

 

[Laughing]

Scotland got it spot on? They didn’t score and now need to beat the World Cup finalists to stand a chance of qualifying.

No offence but I think a lot of Scottish folk are getting a bit carried away about a goalless draw.

Your focusing on the wrong team there atypical. At least Scotland tried to win it. Their tactics were spot on,given the players available and you know it.

 

[atypical_boro]

Your focusing on the wrong team there atypical. At least Scotland tried to win it. Their tactics were spot on,given the players available and you know it.

I know Scotland played better, no question. But in terms of a result Scotland needed to win and a draw is actually fine for England. I don’t think either team got it “right”.

 

[TeaCider]

There had been some nonsense about it being Scotland final and they were bound to raise their game.... These are professional footballers. Anyone who thinks that Scotland were more up for it than England are either wrong or you need to find another country to support. An England national team that can't get up to play Scotland isn't an England team. I'll leave the England fans to decide which it was.

I don't think it's nonsense at all.

It doesn't take anything away from Scotland's good performance last night, they fully merited the point and could possibly have had more, but it 100% does mean more to them.

England beating Scotland isn't seen as a major achievement, nor are Scotland seen as particularly prestigious team, though fans would no doubt mock and abuse Scottish fans if we had won.
It's a rivalry, probably one of the biggest in international football, but it's an unbalanced one.
I don't think I've ever really seen an England win against Scotland discussed at length, bar the '96 one and that's purely because of Gascoigne's goal.

Scotland fans celebrated wildly at a 0-0 draw last night that leaves them hanging on at the bottom of the group in the competition, the England fans booed a point that ensured we're progressing to the knockout stages.

You only needed to look at Andy Robertson's face during the national anthem to see who was more up for it.

 

[Laughing]

I don't think it's nonsense at all.

It doesn't take anything away from Scotland's good performance last night, they fully merited the point and could possibly have had more, but it 100% does mean more to them.

England beating Scotland isn't seen as a major achievement, nor are Scotland seen as particularly prestigious team.
It's a rivalry, probably one of the biggest in international football, but it's an unbalanced one.

Scotland fans celebrated wildly at a 0-0 draw last night that leaves them hanging on at the bottom of the group in the competition, the England fans booed a point that ensured we're progressing to the knockout stages.

You only needed to look at Andy Robertson's face during the national anthem to see who was more up for it.

In which case you need to look at another point I made. If the England players can't put everything on the line for their shirt they shouldn't be playing for England.

I don't know why England were slow, lacklustre and short of ideas, but you can't just use as an excuse "Scotland were up for it more" that damns England to worse criticism than them just being poor. In fact that would mean they were unprofessional, don't care and shouldn't be anywhere near an England shirt.

 

[TeaCider]

In which case you need to look at another point I made. If the England players can't put everything on the line for their shirt they shouldn't be playing for England.

I don't know why England were slow, lacklustre and short of ideas, but you can't just use as an excuse "Scotland were up for it more" that damns England to worse criticism than them just being poor. In fact that would mean they were unprofessional, don't care and shouldn't be anywhere near an England shirt.

I don't think it is just an excuse though.
It happens in football all the time.

On paper superior teams put in rubbish performances against teams they'd be expected to beat comfortably, partly because of complacency and apathy and also because the other team is far more motivated.

You only have to look at Middlesbrough against Newport and Burton 2 seasons ago.
Both in quarter finals of cup competitions, neither of them were sides with any real quality yet both outbattled and outperformed a team full of superior players.

It's game with 2 teams in it, and Clarke clearly prepared his team better and they performed better on the night, so I'm not trying to claim it was just because England couldn't be bothered.
Scotland did their homework and did it well.

 

[Laughing]

I don't think it is an excuse though.
It happens in football all the time.

On paper superior teams put in rubbish performances against teams they'd be expected to beat comfortably, partly because of complacency and apathy and also because the other team is far more motivated.

You only have to look at Middlesbrough against Newport and Burton 2 seasons ago.
Both in quarter finals of cup competitions, neither of them were sides with any real quality yet both outbattled and outperformed a team full of superior players.

You are absolutely right and it's inexcusable at international level. In a domestic cup you could argue there are other priorities in the euros there is only 1 priority.

 

[atypical_boro]

You are absolutely right and it's inexcusable at international level. In a domestic cup you could argue there are other priorities in the euros there is only 1 priority.

It’s been a problem for decades and is probably the reason why England will exit in the knockouts yet again. If there was a simple solution to it by simply “picking other players” England would be much more successful, but they DO “pick other players” and that’s why we have the youngest squad in the tournament.

The problem is that every single one of them is English. As soon as we can start picking players from other countries we’ll be fine.

 

[Laughing]

It’s been a problem for decades and is probably the reason why England will exit in the knockouts yet again. If there was a simple solution to it by simply “picking other players” England would be much more successful, but they DO “pick other players” and that’s why we have the youngest squad in the tournament.

The problem is that every single one of them is English. As soon as we can start picking players from other countries we’ll be fine.

If I read your post correctly you are saying its because that's the English way?

It may be true I wouldn't know but again it's more damming than just not being good enough.

 

[atypical_boro]

If I read your post correctly you are saying its because that's the English way?

It may be true I wouldn't know but again it's more damming than just not being good enough.

The time we win a tournament will be whenever we have a manager who instils ruthlessness in the players. We just don’t have any and never have. Lots of our players are very talented but are partly carried by the big foreign stars at their clubs.

 

[HolgateCorner]

It’s a National/cultural footballing problem. He could pick eleven die hard England fans from the pub and they’d still freeze when they walked out at Wembley. Southgate’s job isn’t to pick different players it’s to break the mental issues the (otherwise good) players we have had since 1966 have.

I’m not sure, I think you are right that there is a cultural problem surrounding the England team and it is far reaching and extends to the squad selection, which clubs the players come from, the geographical advantage of being a London or Southern player, the media and managing them, losing narrowly with dignity rather than taking a risk, whether or not the manager ‘is a jolly good chap’, and there is now (regrettably) a racism and political element creeping in.

It does all contribute to the focus not quite being on maximising the team performance.

 

[Colgates_shaving_foam]

In which case you need to look at another point I made. If the England players can't put everything on the line for their shirt they shouldn't be playing for England.

I don't know why England were slow, lacklustre and short of ideas, but you can't just use as an excuse "Scotland were up for it more" that damns England to worse criticism than them just being poor. In fact that would mean they were unprofessional, don't care and shouldn't be anywhere near an England shirt.

I truly believe that Scotland really were just more 'up for it' than England.

It's human nature, I'm sure the players were all saying and feeling the right things but when you boil it down Scotland simply wanted it more.

A shame for Scotland that they couldn't take it, the Croatia game could well be a bit after the Lord mayor's show for them now that they have expended all that emotional as much as physical energy, fingers crossed they can get the win they need.

 

[The vomiting vicar]

Don’t know if it’s just me but in the post match interview Southgate looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights, he offered nothing in the defence of the performance and it reminded me of every post match interview when he was at the Boro in the premier league

 

[ForssAwakens]

Historical problem, I only remember Bobby Robson’s team being one that played at pace.

Kane playing deep is a problem when you need to break them down. He needs to be a focal point and we probably don’t need the pace of sterling and need the brains of grealish and foden

For me last night it was a tactical shocker

 

[Laughing]

I truly believe that Scotland really were just more 'up for it' than England.

It's human nature, I'm sure the players were all saying and feeling the right things but when you boil it down Scotland simply wanted it more.

A shame for Scotland that they couldn't take it, the Croatia game could well be a bit after the Lord mayor's show for them now that they have expended all that emotional as much as physical energy, fingers crossed they can get the win they need.

If its any consolation my dad on the phone this morning said Scotland turned up England didn't. So he largely agreed with you.

Time will tell whether Scotland are spent or not against Croatia. I am hoping not.

 

[atypical_boro]

If its any consolation my dad on the phone this morning said Scotland turned up England didn't. So he largely agreed with you.

Time will tell whether Scotland are spent or not against Croatia. I am hoping not.

If they have the same desire as last night they have a chance but in my heart of hearts I don’t know if I can see it. The “England factor” is big I think.

 

[Laughing]

If they have the same desire as last night they have a chance but in my heart of hearts I don’t know if I can see it. The “England factor” is big I think.

Against the Czech's Scotland problem was not scoring. They put plenty of balls into dangerous areas with no end product. As that your lad put it they could nae finish their dinners. That may well be the major problem against Croatia.

 

[HolgateCorner]

Kane playing deep is a problem when you need to break them down. He needs to be a focal point and we probably don’t need the pace of sterling and need the brains of grealish and foden

For me last night it was a tactical shocker

It was shocking and disturbing, but Croatia wasn’t much better.

Agree about Kane although his demeanour is a worry in my view, I hope there is nothing wrong in the background there.

Grealish and Foden should be first names on the sheet. Mount needs to do more than the odd fancy flick and ‘killer’ ball, I want more all round effort from him. Phillips does put effort in but is just not this level, I would play Rice as the holding player but tell him he needs to up his game.

Ive mixed feelings about Sterling, it didn’t work for him last night but he does lead by example with effort and he got our only goal so far in the first match.

Defence is good, Mings and Stones look solid enough.

 

[proctors_perm]

It was shocking and disturbing, but Croatia wasn’t much better.

Agree about Kane although his demeanour is a worry in my view, I hope there is nothing wrong in the background there.

Grealish and Foden should be first names on the sheet. Mount needs to do more than the odd fancy flick and ‘killer’ ball, I want more all round effort from him. Phillips does put effort in but is just not this level, I would play Rice as the holding player but tell him he needs to up his game.

Ive mixed feelings about Sterling, it didn’t work for him last night but he does lead by example with effort and he got our only goal so far in the first match.

Defence is good, Mings and Stones look solid enough.

I agree, I also fail to see what Declan Rice has brought to the team in the first two games, if his role is a Kante style breaking up of the opponents play, then so far he has been woeful