Full backs are the problem

The Boro UC

The Boro UC

New member
We bossed that game last night but having wing backs instead of full backs leaves the door open for teams to punnish us every time we get attacked. We need to balance the possesion and ominance with leaving the door open at the back. Im not talking about direct tackling but the knowledge of how to get back and cover. All our conceding is coming through this route. OK Jones was fouled last night but there was no way of catching the guy once he was away, I dont think Bola and Dijksteel can do it!
 
The Boro UC said:
We bossed that game last night but having wing backs instead of full backs leaves the door open for teams to punnish us every time we get attacked. We need to balance the possesion and ominance with leaving the door open at the back. Im not talking about direct tackling but the knowledge of how to get back and cover. All our conceding is coming through this route. OK Jones was fouled last night but there was no way of catching the guy once he was away, I dont think Bola and Dijksteel can do it!
Click to expand...
Totally agree. A back 4 would be better. Jones & Giles can't do it all.
 
The Boro UC said:
We bossed that game last night but having wing backs instead of full backs leaves the door open for teams to punnish us every time we get attacked. We need to balance the possesion and ominance with leaving the door open at the back. Im not talking about direct tackling but the knowledge of how to get back and cover. All our conceding is coming through this route. OK Jones was fouled last night but there was no way of catching the guy once he was away, I dont think Bola and Dijksteel can do it!
Click to expand...

Although I agree that Jones and Giles have to be more aware of their position, the key to our system when we attack, and get those wing backs up and into the box, is getting at least 1 of the central 3 in midfield to have the energy to get back/fill in on transition when we lose the ball. We should essentially become a back 4 with one of the midfielders slotting in until the wing backs recover. We haven't been doing that. WBA's goal the midfield were caught up the pitch and again last night for their first.
 
We need defenders who defend . Bola and Dijksteel are decent , but they are full backs not centre Halves , not good enough at stopping the opposition and both poor in the air . May sound harsh , but we won’t go up with those as part of the back 3 , they get bullied and are tactically poor , one of them should have known the smallest player on the pitch was un marked on the penalty spot . Lenaghan was also guilty .
 
WilderBall said:
Although I agree that Jones and Giles have to be more aware of their position, the key to our system when we attack, and get those wing backs up and into the box, is getting at least 1 of the central 3 in midfield to have the energy to get back/fill in on transition when we lose the ball. We should essentially become a back 4 with one of the midfielders slotting in until the wing backs recover. We haven't been doing that. WBA's goal the midfield were caught up the pitch and again last night for their first.
Click to expand...
Good point WilderBall but my issue is not the number of bodies at the back, its the defending expertise at both full back positions and the linking with the wing backs, this is where we need to improve.
 
As much as I like howson, I don't think he has the legs to cover the wing backs when they push on. If we could get a more mobile defensive mid I think we'd be better defensively. Howson can then be used as another option in the crooks role
 
WilderBall said:
Although I agree that Jones and Giles have to be more aware of their position, the key to our system when we attack, and get those wing backs up and into the box, is getting at least 1 of the central 3 in midfield to have the energy to get back/fill in on transition when we lose the ball. We should essentially become a back 4 with one of the midfielders slotting in until the wing backs recover. We haven't been doing that. WBA's goal the midfield were caught up the pitch and again last night for their first.
Click to expand...

Yep. As I said on another thread we've been conditioned to tactics where we defend by getting men behind the ball and denying space.

The way were looking to play does mean it'll look like there's lots of space in behind now, it'll take some getting used to. Both for fans and maybe some of the players.

The system requires better tactical awareness and decision making from the entire team. Wing backs aren't the issue, it's how we defend as a team.

There's definitely room for improvement, but as has been pointed out on another thread, we've been punished far more severely for any lapses than you'd normally expect to be. That trend won't continue over a season and I'd expect us to tighten up in chances we're giving away too.
 
I don't think the wing backs are the problem. If we can give Giles and Jones as much freedom as possible, I think we score goals every game...

The problem is the overlapping centre backs not covering the positions and getting back quick enough when Giles and Jones are given the freedom.

One perfect example last night was when Giles had the ball on the wing, and Bola tried to run in front of him... There was no space for Giles to pass in front of Bola, so he could run onto the ball...
Giles ended up firing at Bola's feet to get a 50/50 and hope for the best, and they lost the ball...

You could see Giles shouting at Bola afterwards, because Giles knew what he was doing in the wing position, and Bola didn't... He shouldn't have been running there.

Bola should be behind Giles at all times in my opinion. He definitely shouldn't be trying to run on and take a Giles-style cross from the byline.... He's a centre back.

In that specific position Bola should have been there for a back pass, so Giles could then run on to cross, or for a triangle pass with a midfielder.

If we have a solid defensive back 3, with Howson covering areas they can't... We don't have any problems with wingbacks.
 
Our issue, as illustrated against QPR, is when we give away possession and caught on the counter is we need our defenders or covering midfielders to be excellent 1-on-1 defenders and win those battles. Right now that isn't quite happening. A LCB, hopefully Grieves, should address part of the issue.
 
Very few players are good enough for this wingback role, and most are defensively week. We have two good wingers, chose one or both.
 
The Boro UC said:
We bossed that game last night but having wing backs instead of full backs leaves the door open for teams to punnish us every time we get attacked. We need to balance the possesion and ominance with leaving the door open at the back. Im not talking about direct tackling but the knowledge of how to get back and cover. All our conceding is coming through this route. OK Jones was fouled last night but there was no way of catching the guy once he was away, I dont think Bola and Dijksteel can do it!
Click to expand...

You've answered your own comment really, the idea is that you dominate the games, you win the games. I don't recall us ever dominating a half-decent side so much, away from home.

Through all the chances we've had and what we've given away we should be on around 8 points, which would have us second, and nobody would be complaining about wingbacks then, like they weren't last season when we finished 7th (and significantly improved performance under Wilder).

If we got to a back 4 we wouldn't be able to dominate possession in the middle, without playing 5 in midfield, and then someone up top on their own, and unfortunately, we don't have Mitrovic, so we can't play that way.

It's a waste of time having Giles and Jones if they have nobody to hit, we've got major chance creators this year, we need to use them.

All we need to do is cut out the odd mistake, make more of our chances and get a bit of luck, as we've had next to zero.
 
Ash88 said:
I don't think the wing backs are the problem. If we can give Giles and Jones as much freedom as possible, I think we score goals every game...

The problem is the overlapping centre backs not covering the positions and getting back quick enough when Giles and Jones are given the freedom.

One perfect example last night was when Giles had the ball on the wing, and Bola tried to run in front of him... There was no space for Giles to pass in front of Bola, so he could run onto the ball...
Giles ended up firing at Bola's feet to get a 50/50 and hope for the best, and they lost the ball...

You could see Giles shouting at Bola afterwards, because Giles knew what he was doing in the wing position, and Bola didn't... He shouldn't have been running there.

Bola should be behind Giles at all times in my opinion. He definitely shouldn't be trying to run on and take a Giles-style cross from the byline.... He's a centre back.

In that specific position Bola should have been there for a back pass, so Giles could then run on to cross, or for a triangle pass with a midfielder.

If we have a solid defensive back 3, with Howson covering areas they can't... We don't have any problems with wingbacks.
Click to expand...
Do you not listen to the manager Bola was doing everything that the manager wants him to do (in that situation). Whether those tactics are right or not is the crux of our defensive problems.
To me I would be going with 4411.
A Right footed CB, a Left footed CB. Dijksteel and Bola full backs with Jones and Giles ahead of them. Howson and Mowatt center mid with Mcree/Crooks behind 1 striker.
 
The Boro UC said:
Yes, but whats the point in dominating the game if we leave the door open at the back?
Click to expand...
That’s the point of football. You can choose to be more defensive and crate less clear cut chances like karanka

Or you choose to be more attacking but accept you’ll concede more chances.

Throw into that we have new players and a relatively new system then we may concede more while we transition

For me the xg stats tell me that we are in the right path and eventually it’ll click
 
davidmills said:
Do you not listen to the manager Bola was doing everything that the manager wants him to do (in that situation). Whether those tactics are right or not is the crux of our defensive problems.
To me I would be going with 4411.
A Right footed CB, a Left footed CB. Dijksteel and Bola full backs with Jones and Giles ahead of them. Howson and Mowatt center mid with Mcree/Crooks behind 1 striker.
Click to expand...
I can’t get onboard of a manager abandoning his philosophy when the signs are pretty positive
 
Andy_W said:
You've answered your own comment really, the idea is that you dominate the games, you win the games. I don't recall us ever dominating a half-decent side so much, away from home.

Through all the chances we've had and what we've given away we should be on around 8 points, which would have us second, and nobody would be complaining about wingbacks then, like they weren't last season when we finished 7th (and significantly improved performance under Wilder).

If we got to a back 4 we wouldn't be able to dominate possession in the middle, without playing 5 in midfield, and then someone up top on their own, and unfortunately, we don't have Mitrovic, so we can't play that way.

It's a waste of time having Giles and Jones if they have nobody to hit, we've got major chance creators this year, we need to use them.

All we need to do is cut out the odd mistake, make more of our chances and get a bit of luck, as we've had next to zero.
Click to expand...
Good points Andy, I dont suggest we change the strategy, I just think we have a weakness with full backs not doing their defending well. That for Mr Wilder and co to sort out. We dont want to be a gungo team with domination of posession with weaknesses at the back is all I'm saying.
 
I actually thought Howson was too high up the pitch in the lead-up to their first goal. If he'd sat a bit deeper he may have been in a position where he could have prevented the counter.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top