bear66
Well-known member
His defending seems to be the accusation but no one can give an example.Rotherham have conceded considerably fewer goals with him there than our miserable defence over the same period.
Free transfer..... Lewis Wing
- Thread starter WindyNook
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Andy_W
Well-known member
I've not watched him/ them enough to comment on that, to be honest, or not paid as much attention, but there are a hundred other variables that are all interlinked, I've only considered some of the basic ones, some have only considered that he scores some long rangers (and that's it).
Some other things to factor:
They've had a lot more to play for recently than we have (ultimately they failed)
We've had a lot of injuries, and a large chunk of our team knows they're leaving (and are playing like it)
We finished higher this year, with Wing out of the team (albeit different team/ manager)
How often does Wing gain/ lose possession?
What does he create/ what does he cost?
What impact does his positional play have for the positive, what is the negative?
What's their alternative?
What's our alternative?
Where are Rotherham aiming to be?
Where are we aiming to be?
Is Wing good enough for us? Is he good enough for a play-off team? Is he good enough for a top 2 team?
Have we seen wing in training, compared to the rest of our team, 3 times a week for a year or two?
Do we analyse in the same depth as the analysts/ coaches?
There's a lot that goes into it. Personally, I think he's a great striker of the ball and a good enough centre mid for a lower/ mid-table side, but I think we need to aim higher.
It's unfortunate for him though, had he got into a good coaching system earlier, it would have made him 10 times better, by now, and he will get better and better until he's 30 or so, as his lacking elements can still be coached I think. Whereas some of our midfielders around the same age, and younger lads may have already peaked.
BoroMart
Well-known member
Ian Wright and Jamie Vardy are the exceptions rather than the norm. Just because there are the odd example that can over come that issue, doesn't mean the majority can. Plus the position of striker (particularly one that runs the channels, and runs in behind rather than a target man, or link striker) is probably a lot less tactical and a little more individual rather than unit based.
Strikers don't have to worry so much about out of possession and they don't need to have 360 awareness like a central midfielder.
BoroMart
Well-known member
go look at highlights of defeats in the last 5 years, and you will see him, pressing to high and being played around, doesn't always lead to a goal but leads to loss of midfield and chances.
bear66
Well-known member
He's a decent squad player, fitter than our coasting midfielders with passing and shooting skills. And our lowest paid player by some way if the figures put up the other day are right. I'd have gone for Morsy, Saville and Howson when he went out on loan, but we should have kept him as a squad player for form dips and injuries, both of which have happened.
None then. As opposed to Morsy, McNair, Howson, Saville, Fry, Bola, Fisher, Spense etc. etc.
brain_in_a_jar
Well-known member
You just know he'll go and be replaced with a 30 year old journey man though, who'll offer little more than wing does minus the goals and warnock will tell us what a pro he is and how good he is around the place.
For wing I think the best thing for him is to leave and get regular football, for us as a club I'd keep hold of him though as he's a decent enough squad player and considering how thin the squad is I'm not sure we should be wasting time trying to replace him when we have many more pressing priorities.
For wing I think the best thing for him is to leave and get regular football, for us as a club I'd keep hold of him though as he's a decent enough squad player and considering how thin the squad is I'm not sure we should be wasting time trying to replace him when we have many more pressing priorities.
Andy_W
Well-known member
His fitness will be known to the nth degree by the coaches, some of those "coasting" may be leaving, or may just appear as "coasting"? Headless chickens are fit, doesn't mean they use it correctly, good positioning saves unnecessary running (not saying he's a headless chicken).
If he's as good as those others, he will want a pay rise like those though? I imagine he was still on his non-league first contract or not far from it, seeing as it was signed before he had played in the Champo for us. Would we want to give him a 4 year play off standard contract, when we can likely get someone better/ more certain for the same?
I'm not disagreeing btw, just playing devil's advocate, I don't mind him and think he could be coached better, but it depends on his metrics and what we think we could get out of him, and what a new contract would cost. Then see what the value is on that (which I imagine is data that we already have).
Form dips and injuries are irrelevant, for us as it's a "nothing season". We were miles from the playoffs and wing would not have put us any or much higher. Even if he had, we are nowhere near Brentford and would have little chance of winning the playoffs. Basically not really worth the expense of having him here, and the club might have wanted to get a better look at the others, even fringe players.
bear66
Well-known member
Certainly he's been coached better at Rotherham. We were 7th and 2 points from the playoffs when he went on loan with Reading falling out of the play-off positions at the expense of Barnsley who were 4 points below us in 12th at the time. We ended up 13 points outside the play-offs with Barnsley gaining 18 points on us.
Who knows what he could have done. He is already on a contract and earning 4 to 12 times less than other midfielders if this link is any where near right.
viv_andersons_nana
Well-known member
Wing scored 4 goals this season despite spending half of it on the bench, barely playing, and the other half with a team who'd spent most of it in the bottom three trying to stay up.
Howson has scored 5 goals in 170-odd games across 4 years.
Howson has scored 5 goals in 170-odd games across 4 years.
viv_andersons_nana
Well-known member
I think I posted this recently but a lot of people would snap your hands off for an attack-minded central midfield player, mid-20s, scores goals, shoots, looks forwards not back, isn't afraid to take the ball in tight situations, will always show for the ball and take risks to try and score a goal. I think Wing has got more goals in the last 2 or 3 years than the rest of our midfielders combined. I find it bizarre that he is the one out on loan, grafting somewhere else, when our midfield has been caught short for months. Everything hinges on Tav. Take him out and we pose little or no threat from the middle of the field. Put Wing in there and we at least have something for the opposition to think about because he will turn and face them and not be afraid to have a dig or play a forward pass.
We are packed to the gills with players who can play five-yard balls and give the impression they're working hard when they're really not doing what they're supposed to be doing. The defence is exposed not just by injuries to good players but by midfielders ahead of them not doing their jobs as well as they should be. These lads from Wycombe on Saturday, constantly running off the midfielders and in behind the defence, yet it's Spence and Johnson hauled off. I'd like to know what Saville and Howson were doing for the entirety of Saturday's match because they certainly weren't tracking runners, which is the thing Wing is most criticised for not doing. If they were offering something going forward, could keep the ball between them, play the attacking players in, then fair enough but they don't do those things. They were absolutely abysmal on Saturday while Wing is off scoring screamers for someone else.
It is weird how some lads just get it in the neck, irrespective of their actual contribution to the cause.
We are packed to the gills with players who can play five-yard balls and give the impression they're working hard when they're really not doing what they're supposed to be doing. The defence is exposed not just by injuries to good players but by midfielders ahead of them not doing their jobs as well as they should be. These lads from Wycombe on Saturday, constantly running off the midfielders and in behind the defence, yet it's Spence and Johnson hauled off. I'd like to know what Saville and Howson were doing for the entirety of Saturday's match because they certainly weren't tracking runners, which is the thing Wing is most criticised for not doing. If they were offering something going forward, could keep the ball between them, play the attacking players in, then fair enough but they don't do those things. They were absolutely abysmal on Saturday while Wing is off scoring screamers for someone else.
It is weird how some lads just get it in the neck, irrespective of their actual contribution to the cause.
Andy_W
Well-known member
He's probably one of Rotherham's best players, so has more licence to do what he likes. Some players look better in worse teams, as the team gets structured to suit their asset. For us, Wing was missing for a lot of games (when he was playing), and your centre mid should never ever be missing.
The form dip also coincides with Fletcher's injuries, Britt knowing he was leaving, us realising Akpoms level etc.
Wing barely played in the team that got us to 7th, if we need to improve on that there's a good chance we need to improve our team (from outside), not from the bench?
That link would be fairly accurate, I expect and I earn more than Wing, albeit not for long I expect!
Laughing
Well-known member
You have posted a lot of ifs, buts and maybes there Andy.
The simple fact is he has had less coaching, less game time and is on less money than our regulate midfielders and out scores them.
His positional play should be getting worked on both at Rotherham and when he comes back.
He offers more than most of our midfield going forward and he should be kept.
The risk is minimal in terms of wages and if you are talking about value for money... We'll need I say more on that.
Alzi
Well-known member
Wing was also an important part of the team who only just missed out on the playoffs in Pulis's last season. If he was called Winginho and we'd signed him from an exotic country then I imagine he'd get a bit more praise than a lad signed from Shildon.
I'd have him in the team ahead of Howson & Saville. Even this season you just need to look at games like Birmingham away to see what he is capable of. I'm not saying he should be first on the team sheet, but surely a player like that is useful to have in the squad? We've got enough midfield crabs who don't score, rarely assist but "put a shift in".
I'd have him in the team ahead of Howson & Saville. Even this season you just need to look at games like Birmingham away to see what he is capable of. I'm not saying he should be first on the team sheet, but surely a player like that is useful to have in the squad? We've got enough midfield crabs who don't score, rarely assist but "put a shift in".
atypical_boro
Well-known member
Some might say Wing is a 26 year old journeyman tbf. If his replacement offers 'more' (even if its little more), isn't that a worthy trade?
TeaCider
Well-known member
I do think he may be worth having in just for the fact we don't have another player regularly capable of scoring from outside the box, but Saville is just as capable of scoring and assisting as Wing, he just tends to do so from inside the box.
McNair would appear to be just as capable of scoring directly from a corner (though let's not pretend that the goal wasn't primarily down to Ethelridge having a howler), he regularly tests the keeper with his deliveries.
Next season, I would genuinely consider phasing out Howson as a consistent starter, so I do think there's a place for Wing.
brain_in_a_jar
Well-known member
Wing a 26 year old journey man? I don't get that to be honest, he was late to club football and had 2 loans, its hardly journey man material.
It was tongue in cheek anyway, the point was we've got more pressing issues which need addressing in the transfer window than replacing a okish championship squad midfielder for another okish championship squad midfielder.
atypical_boro
Well-known member
Depends how you define journeyman? He's 26, got a handful of Football League appearances under his belt for a few different clubs after playing for a handful of non-league clubs. He wasn't late to football just late to professional football. He's pretty much the epitome of a journeyman. Not saying we shouldn't keep him as such, just didn't think your comment that we will only sign someone 'a little bit better' was so unappealing.
brain_in_a_jar
Well-known member
I didn't say we'd sign somebody a little bit better, I said we'd sign somebody a little bit older who scores less goals.
I don't think by any definition you could describe wing as a journey man. If by 30 he's got another 3 clubs under his belt then I'd tend to agree but one professional club with 2 loan spells (one of those being early doors in his professional career) is hardly going around the houses.
