Yup, it's also really early stages, I definitely agree I don't think people will like it for free but may well warm to the idea given the right tariff to persuade them.
Electric cars to cost more to run then petrol/ diesel cars
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A bit like social energy platforms and battery sharing. If there is enough financial incentive people will warm to the idea. The only problem is when you forget you're sharing and suddenly need the power to get somewhere i imagine.
Similar to sharing on the grid and suddenly needing to run a washing machine.
AI will probably reduce those risks though.
Similar to sharing on the grid and suddenly needing to run a washing machine.
AI will probably reduce those risks though.
BiggEggo
Well-known member
The whole EV model is questionable atm.
Off peak electricity discounts will gradually be removed as overnight base load demands increase.
Mileage based taxation has already been signed off by the treasury to replace lost fuel duty revenues. Just upto the PM to drop that bombshell when they choose.
Off peak electricity discounts will gradually be removed as overnight base load demands increase.
Mileage based taxation has already been signed off by the treasury to replace lost fuel duty revenues. Just upto the PM to drop that bombshell when they choose.
Redwurzel
Well-known member
Electric vehicles will have to pay a charge to use public roads. Petrol cars are being charged about 9p per mile (according to my calcs) at present through road tax, fuel duty and VAT. I don't know what happens to company car drivers, never been in the lucky postion of having a company car.
For board information - some facts - It costs me around 14.5p per mile for unleaded fuel (10.7 miles per litre and 157p per litre) and my range is around 550 miles. I drive 250 miles a day about 12 times a year. (usually without stopping). My electricity prices will have trebled in the last 2 years by October, I don't think I am in a unique position. Unleaded was about 145p per litre 12 months ago and 120p about 2 years. The price of oil is dropping in dollars faster than sterling. Today sterling dropped by 1% against the dollar, but oil dropped 3.4% (as per 8pm)
I can see oil dropping to $60 in the next 12 months.
Andy - do you think Electric vehicles will have to pay the equivalent tax as ICE vehicles in the future?
For board information - some facts - It costs me around 14.5p per mile for unleaded fuel (10.7 miles per litre and 157p per litre) and my range is around 550 miles. I drive 250 miles a day about 12 times a year. (usually without stopping). My electricity prices will have trebled in the last 2 years by October, I don't think I am in a unique position. Unleaded was about 145p per litre 12 months ago and 120p about 2 years. The price of oil is dropping in dollars faster than sterling. Today sterling dropped by 1% against the dollar, but oil dropped 3.4% (as per 8pm)
I can see oil dropping to $60 in the next 12 months.
Andy - do you think Electric vehicles will have to pay the equivalent tax as ICE vehicles in the future?
The £100 cost you quoted, does that include the extortionate price of coffe and snacks that the service stations charge? Or do you take a flask and a butty box?
Gunslinger
Well-known member
AS soon as everybody switches to EV the prices will go through the roof and the offpeak benedfits will dissapear
Its a supply and demand issue like for any energy source
Diesel cost pennies when it was first being used, soon as the demand went up it started to cost more than petrol (well only in the UK)
Nuclear power is the only way, forget these fantasies about solar panels and wind farms
Its a supply and demand issue like for any energy source
Diesel cost pennies when it was first being used, soon as the demand went up it started to cost more than petrol (well only in the UK)
Nuclear power is the only way, forget these fantasies about solar panels and wind farms
SmallTown
Well-known member
It isn’t
SmallTown
Well-known member
I never understood this backward attitude. How is renewable energy a “fantasy”? When it’s already a proven energy source
Will things stay the same as they are ? Of course they won't. I fully expect road taxation to come for EVs, I expect costs to run will rise over time (as well as costs to buy EVs to go down, another thing that's barely discussed is how cheap EVs are to service).
EVs are however here to stay, you won't be able to buy a new ICE car after 2030.
Energy suppliers are continuing to invest in smart tariffs, so I don't see these going away any time soon. The real big focus is load shifting and experimenting with how well people will adapt their behaviour to use when demand is lower and giving people incentives to do so. I would say we are a quite some way from the time where the gap between supply and demand is no longer a problem.
LIke anything it's not black and white, it's not all best case scenarios Vs worst case. There's a whole lot of grey, it's new tech and under massive amounts of development and constant innovation by manufactures and energy suppliers alike. Change is absolutely guaranteed.
Also, as an aside, I'd totally agree we should have more investment in nuclear. Renewables and battery storage are the future, but, we need a solid base to fill the gap from fossil fuel power generation now.
EVs are however here to stay, you won't be able to buy a new ICE car after 2030.
Energy suppliers are continuing to invest in smart tariffs, so I don't see these going away any time soon. The real big focus is load shifting and experimenting with how well people will adapt their behaviour to use when demand is lower and giving people incentives to do so. I would say we are a quite some way from the time where the gap between supply and demand is no longer a problem.
LIke anything it's not black and white, it's not all best case scenarios Vs worst case. There's a whole lot of grey, it's new tech and under massive amounts of development and constant innovation by manufactures and energy suppliers alike. Change is absolutely guaranteed.
Also, as an aside, I'd totally agree we should have more investment in nuclear. Renewables and battery storage are the future, but, we need a solid base to fill the gap from fossil fuel power generation now.
Abel Tasman
Well-known member
I suspect with Labours green agenda the answer to that is no.
Laughing
Well-known member
Nuclear energy through fission just kicks the can down the road. It surprises me that anyone thinks this is a good idea.
Even given deep ground storage we will eventually run out of storage space. The half life of u-238 is 4.5 billion years. What damage will it do to our world if we rely on nuclear for any length of time. For clarity the USA currently store 83,000 tons of u-238 waste.
Given this shambles of a government let water companies pump **** into our rivers does anyone think we will store depleted fuel rods safely. It will leak into water tables and poison the planet.
Even given deep ground storage we will eventually run out of storage space. The half life of u-238 is 4.5 billion years. What damage will it do to our world if we rely on nuclear for any length of time. For clarity the USA currently store 83,000 tons of u-238 waste.
Given this shambles of a government let water companies pump **** into our rivers does anyone think we will store depleted fuel rods safely. It will leak into water tables and poison the planet.
Abel Tasman
Well-known member
Exactly. It is pure fantasy to think otherwise.
MolteniArcore
Well-known member
We should have had this system years ago. Not sure how they would implement it but it might stop people driving 1 mile to nip to the shops (25% of journeys). It would be amazing to get 25% of cars off the road in our local towns.
Abel Tasman
Well-known member
How will mileage taxation work? The milometer becomes like a gas or electricity meter - you send in readings every quarter?
1finny
Well-known member
Much appreciated - I will download those apps. I’ve got the Enyaq 80.
Just getting used to it.
Oh I definitely don't think it's a great option by any stretch, just there is a case to argue for it being the least worst as a stopgap. Personally I'd be throwing the kitchen sink into renewable generation and storage and fusion R&D, but we have to fill the gap in the meantime somehow.
MolteniArcore
Well-known member
Mileage is recorded at every MOT... That would be one way not to punish business users and drive older cars off the road for greener ones.
Every MOT you get a nice little tax bill... can you imagine!!
Laughing
Well-known member
I would assume, but dont know, the astronomical cost of nuclear plants means they wouldn't be a very short term solution. I don't know how long one stays in service for but, assuming 40 years, that's its tied to nuclear for that period of time.
Again I don't know but instead of building nuclear power stations the same money could be sunk into wind and solar.
Nuclear fusion is on its way too. Its not entirely clean but much better than fission and doesn't have the half life issue.
Brian Marwood
Well-known member
I was told years ago that nuclear fusion doesn't work because of E=MC2, now I've listened to the Big Audio Dynamite song loads of times and still don't understand the reasoning.
