Does anybody get the Southgate criticism…

Really? Portugal twice, Belgium, Switzerland, Netherlands, Spain twice, England. They're terrible teams? Without forensically checking I'd say about 25 of the teams they played were in FIFA's top 30 as well. Only about 6 of the teams in that run were actually terrible teams.
Largely made up of terrible opponents.

Ukraine - 1 draw
Poland - 2 wins, 1 draw
Portugal - 1 draw
USA - 1 win
Finland - 2 wins
Liechtenstein - 2 wins
Greece - 2 wins
Bosnia - 3 wins, 1 draw
Armenia - 2 wins
Netherlands - 1 win, 1 draw
Moldova - 1 win
Estonia - 1 win
Northern Ireland - 1 win
Bulgaria - 1 win, 1 draw
Lithuania - 2 wins
San Marino - 1 win
Czech - 1 win
Turkey - 1 win
Switzerland - 1 win, 1 draw
Wales - 1 win
Austria - 1 win (aet)
Belgium - 1 win
Spain - 1 win (pens)
England - 1 win (pens)

Of that list, I'd happily say
Finland, Liechenstein, Bosnia, Armenia, Moldova, Estonia, Northern Ireland, Bulgaria, Lithuania, San Marino, Czech are terrible teams - that's 19 of those games....more than half.

I'd then say the likes of Poland, Ukraine, USA, Greece, Turkey, Wales, Austria, are average at best...there's another 10 games. so 29 games are against opposition they shouldn't be losing to (albeit football isn't that easy of course).

Then the rest of the 8 games are made up Portugal, Netherlands, Switzerland, Belgium, Spain, England, which are made up of 3 wins and 5 draws (in 90 minutes - with a couple of penalty shoot out wins).

Any 'unbeaten run' can seem impressive. But when you look into it, the batch of teams Italy played, were IMO largely made up of terrible opponents, with a few 'lucky' draws in the mix against good teams which makes their run look a lot lot better than it actually was.

They failed to qualify for back to back world cups. Any team doing that, aren't a great team....and certainly a team I would be expecting England to beat.
 
Largely made up of terrible opponents.

Ukraine - 1 draw
Poland - 2 wins, 1 draw
Portugal - 1 draw
USA - 1 win
Finland - 2 wins
Liechtenstein - 2 wins
Greece - 2 wins
Bosnia - 3 wins, 1 draw
Armenia - 2 wins
Netherlands - 1 win, 1 draw
Moldova - 1 win
Estonia - 1 win
Northern Ireland - 1 win
Bulgaria - 1 win, 1 draw
Lithuania - 2 wins
San Marino - 1 win
Czech - 1 win
Turkey - 1 win
Switzerland - 1 win, 1 draw
Wales - 1 win
Austria - 1 win (aet)
Belgium - 1 win
Spain - 1 win (pens)
England - 1 win (pens)

Of that list, I'd happily say
Finland, Liechenstein, Bosnia, Armenia, Moldova, Estonia, Northern Ireland, Bulgaria, Lithuania, San Marino, Czech are terrible teams - that's 19 of those games....more than half.

I'd then say the likes of Poland, Ukraine, USA, Greece, Turkey, Wales, Austria, are average at best...there's another 10 games. so 29 games are against opposition they shouldn't be losing to (albeit football isn't that easy of course).

Then the rest of the 8 games are made up Portugal, Netherlands, Switzerland, Belgium, Spain, England, which are made up of 3 wins and 5 draws (in 90 minutes - with a couple of penalty shoot out wins).

Any 'unbeaten run' can seem impressive. But when you look into it, the batch of teams Italy played, were IMO largely made up of terrible opponents, with a few 'lucky' draws in the mix against good teams which makes their run look a lot lot better than it actually was.

They failed to qualify for back to back world cups. Any team doing that, aren't a great team....and certainly a team I would be expecting England to beat.

First of all the idea that because Italy didn't qualify for the 2018 and 2022 World Cup, England should have beaten then easily is nonsense. We didn't play either of those teams.
The way Boros season has gone shows how much a side can improve in a relatively short time, look at someone like Norwich to prove the opposite.
We played an Italian side in the midst of a record breaking run who'd just reached the final of the European Championships beating Belgium and Spain on the way.
Also referencing the fact they played some poor teams in their run, conveniently ignores the fact they played some of the world's best international teams.
Any side in World Football who had played Portugal, Spain, Belgium, Switzerland and England and remained unbeaten should be considered a good side.
 
@Durham Red I see you laugh at a lot of my posts which is odd, what is your take on the racial element to the criticism Gareth receives? What is your opinion on taking the knee is support of anti racist groups and discrimination?
There is no racial element to the criticism I don't think. But that doesn't fit your agenda does it 😜
 
Really? Portugal twice, Belgium, Switzerland, Netherlands, Spain twice, England. They're terrible teams? Without forensically checking I'd say about 25 of the teams they played were in FIFA's top 30 as well. Only about 6 of the teams in that run were actually terrible teams.
Facts are important
 
There is no racial element to the criticism I don't think. But that doesn't fit your agenda does it 😜
there's a racism element, and a culture war element, but with southgate being white and the haters largely being white then it isn't a racism thing
 
First of all the idea that because Italy didn't qualify for the 2018 and 2022 World Cup, England should have beaten then easily is nonsense
I never said beat them easily.

But any country failing to qualify for back to back World Cups, IMO, aren't a very good team. Qualification for the World Cup is relatively easy - for very good teams.

reached the final of the European Championships beating Belgium and Spain on the way.
Having watched the Spain semi final, they were very fortunate the fact Spain couldn't convert their many chances. They were very much the better team throughout and a bit like in the recent World Cup, Spain couldn't convert, which cost them.
The way Boros season has gone shows how much a side can improve in a relatively short time, look at someone like Norwich to prove the opposite.
Correct. But lets not pretend Italy were dominating teams, and scoring for fun, against good teams at times. They weren't. They couldn't even score against Sweden in 2 attempts, let alone beat them, or get past North Macedonia to qualify for a World Cup! Simply embarrassing for a nation of Italy's history and pedigree.
Any side in World Football who had played Portugal, Spain, Belgium, Switzerland and England and remained unbeaten should be considered a good side
I never said they were a poor side. They clearly aren't. But they have definitely not been a great side neither.
Any team that is deemed 'great' would qualify for a World Cup in 2 attempts, especially when the qualifying is heavily weighted in favour of the top nations.
 
Having watched the Spain semi final, they were very fortunate the fact Spain couldn't convert their many chances.
I agree, but on the flip side I think we matched up far better with Spain I said to friends at the time we batter Spain in the final or we have a cagey one with Italy that could go either way.

But we cannot ignore how they absolutely blasted past everyone in the previous rounds and just look at the Spain game as being lucky
 
I never said beat them easily.

But any country failing to qualify for back to back World Cups, IMO, aren't a very good team. Qualification for the World Cup is relatively easy - for very good teams.


Having watched the Spain semi final, they were very fortunate the fact Spain couldn't convert their many chances. They were very much the better team throughout and a bit like in the recent World Cup, Spain couldn't convert, which cost them.

Correct. But lets not pretend Italy were dominating teams, and scoring for fun, against good teams at times. They weren't. They couldn't even score against Sweden in 2 attempts, let alone beat them, or get past North Macedonia to qualify for a World Cup! Simply embarrassing for a nation of Italy's history and pedigree.

I never said they were a poor side. They clearly aren't. But they have definitely not been a great side neither.
Any team that is deemed 'great' would qualify for a World Cup in 2 attempts, especially when the qualifying is heavily weighted in favour of the top nations.

..... again, it's completely irrelevant what they did in 2017 or even 2022! We didn't play them then. They had a golden period between 2019 and 2021, when they were unquestionably a very good side.
It's like saying Boro have no chance of getting promoted this season because they were rubbish in 2019. Or how did Liverpool win the league a couple of years ago because they've been rubbish this season.
The quality of a team can change dramatically in a very short period of time.
 
Any 'unbeaten run' can seem impressive. But when you look into it, the batch of teams Italy played, were IMO largely made up of terrible opponents,
Scotland 2-0 Spain......now lets stop pretending all these teams that Italy beat were utter turd and they just had to turn up. The game is far more difficult than that.

- France lucky to get a 1-0 vs Northern Ireland
- Netherlands struggling to get 3 against a ten man Gibraltar
- Denmark losing 3-2 at Kazahkstan
- Croatia failing to beat a post Bale-Wales
- Czech Republic failing to beat Moldova who had been held by the Faroe Islands a couple of days earlier.

I guess the demand that we beat every team comfortably, even traditionally powerful teams like Italy, tells us a lot about where our expectations are now, which should be a reflection on the great job Southgate has done
 
Scotland 2-0 Spain......now lets stop pretending all these teams that Italy beat were utter turd and they just had to turn up. The game is far more difficult than that.
I never said they were all utter turd and they just had to turn up. But a lot were poor teams.

I guess the demand that we beat every team comfortably, even traditionally powerful teams like Italy, tells us a lot about where our expectations are now, which should be a reflection on the great job Southgate has done
Never once said we should beat every team comfortably. I do think we should be beating a team who can't even qualify for a World Cup in 2 attempts back to back though.

That first half showed how much better we were as a team on a whole. And a stronger manager would've smelt blood and went for the kill, not sit back and hope we grind a 1-0 out.

And that Italy team we played in the final in 2021 was pretty much the same team that was in the middle of the qualifying campaign for World Cup 2022.

Like I said before, would I sack Southgate? No.

But I don't think he'll win anything with us, as in those big big moments, he doesn't seem to have the knack/bottle/know-how (whatever you want to call it) compared to those top top managers.

I'd love to be wrong, and see us lift a trophy. I think we have the squad to challenge and do it too. We have some of the best youngsters in the world and we have one of the best #9's. The next Euro's I think we may go into the tournaments 2nd favourites behind France, just ahead of Spain & Germany.
 
its a certain type of person - those who are socially inadequate, listen to the most crass with the biggest gob and have discovered a new american slang word for awake, and they dont like it, they dont want to be awake, they want to be asleep.

ignorant & asleep - its their choice to take that road, thankfully its a slow lonely road with much tumbleweed.
 
I think I just read that Southgate lacks knack, bottle and knowhow. That is an interesting place to position your opinion.

According to the poster only 1 interrnational manager every 2 years has the knack, bottle and knowhow, the rest, I assume are also rans.
 
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