Derbys debts reveal…..

Only he hasn’t yet. He’s disappeared. Bunkered up somewhere on the outskirts of Ukraine I reckon
 
Not sure thats new information, £60m debt.

Add £60m to that figure (£80m stadium sale minus £20m “loan” that if settled apparently means they can get the stadium back for zero) gives at least £120m.

I know I keep banging on about this, but this is absolutely critical that the EFL take the requisite action.

Assume;

£15m football creditors repaid in full
£11m (25% of remaining debt) repaid
£20m for stadium repurchase for asset that should be £90m

So a financial benefit of minimum £90m. That cannot be allowed - it is an absolute distortion.
 
Smoginexile said:
Why were Bury not given the same protection Derby seem to be getting.
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I think that was down to Bury failing to provide the financial assurances and not actually starting the season before they were expelled. No results to expunge, nice and tidy.

The EFL probably don't want to expel a club so far in to the season and the effect that'll have on teams losing points gained. Giving them until the end of February almost makes it pointless now not letting them finish the season.
 
It appears to me MM has not fully purchased the stadium which would explain where some of the £80m stadium payment has gone i.e. some was not passed on hence Derby having to take out loans over the last 18 months to pay wages for which they haven't paid HMRC the taxes for.

It does make me wonder what the Football League have been doing since April 2019. This is when MM supposedly bought the Stadium for £80m to serious complaints from other Championship clubs. Weren't Derby's finance been checked for FFP?
 
I see the Sky News, reporter is still referring to Boro/WWs claims potentially being £40 odd mil. Despite both camps laughing at such a figure.

The same 'big lie' the BBC, the Derby Telegraph and the Tory MPs are repeating ad infinitum.

They say, If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

Rather apt for this week in history; as the Nazis used 'große Lüge' (big lie) to justify the Holocaust and mass murder.

Trump does it all the time. For example, his attempts to overturn the result of the 2020 United States presidential election.

Welcome to Partygate and the league of British Fascists
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this HMRC debt is presumably made up of VAT that they've charged other people (including Boro fans who went to Pride Park) but kept for themselves, and PAYE that they've deducted from wages but kept for themselves?

If so, this isn't even an FFP issue, it's just downright theft.
 
We simply can't see their Accounts for 2018-19, or 2019-20.
They were provided then withdrawn. The EFL demanded their re-production on Gibson's lead and they remain outside the public domain. It is an outrage and an offence in its own right.
Unfortunately the Published Accounts themselves are headlines and conceal detail in any case. It is impossible to accurately state a Club's FFP position form Published Accounts, we have to rely on the EFL.
However, intelligent estimates can be made to see a Club's position, hence my finger pointing at Clubs.
Some of Derby County actions have been in my view illegal, not just immoral. (Submission of false accounts, late submission, tax dealings)
There are however a number of obvious cheats who have disappeared into the PL unpunished or insufficiently punished, who then slip back into the Championship some time later and are untouched. Some of these are worse from an FFP perspective than Derby.
I can not believe that Stoke City are not under the microscope. Over £80m loss in year to June 2020 on top of massive losses for the 2 previous years. Well over £130m combined loss in that 3 year period and zero equity injected. It is an outrage. They must have some commitment to Academy, Community and Ladies football to wipe that out.
 
What I dont understand is how Mel Morriss does not seem liable for any of this debt. If the taxman lets them off then I am going to do the same with my VAT and PAYE.
This is the man the derby fans should be getting at, not Gibbo.
 
Ref Boro's claim for compensation for play off place - it could have been £40m originally, but the Club had said they willing to negotiate, but the media never mention this, nor the fact the Administrators or potential bidders are willing to talk the MFC. Its the same with Wycombe no one from the Derby side is willing to talk to them.

Isn't Mel Morris a creditor too? there seems some serious confusion if he owns the Stadium
outright as other creditors have claims against the stadium.

Ref HMRC they collect Income Tax, National Insurance, and VAT - so the debt could be a combination of all of these.

I also thought they also owed money to an ex manager and ex player.

I would have thought the Club is worth £80m to £100m without its creditors and including the stadium (based on Newcastle at £305m).

If Mel Morris handed the stadium back the Club for say £10m and everyone else took 50% of their claims a new Derby County could be up and running without a major problem. The new buyer could pay off the debts for around £62m.
 
MoggasDog said:
What I dont understand is how Mel Morriss does not seem liable for any of this debt. If the taxman lets them off then I am going to do the same with my VAT and PAYE.
This is the man the derby fans should be getting at, not Gibbo.
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Mel Morris will say Derby County FC (limited company) have all the debts. MM in this example was just acting as an employee for DCFC, that the legal situation, even though its feels morally wrong.

MM is likely to have used some of his personal assets to help DCFC in their quest for promotion and the £150m pay off that brings. Most chairman in the Championship are doing a similar thing, but on a lesser scale (unless they have parachute payments which we had in 2018/19 season and we could not compete financially with Derby!).
 
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