Daily Mail Claim about Wilder.

indeedido said:
Who has been then....?
Of course Scouting falls under him, he is "Head of Football".
13 months on it's not been going too well for Kieran.
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Surely he is overseeing the department rather than actually scouting players himself though? Hence the new chief scout being appointed last week. These things might take longer than a year to implement, I don’t think any of us really know how or what it takes to build an industrial-scale scouting and recruitment network in the modern age.
 
fmttmadmin said:
That isn't "Gibson is on record..." though, is it. It is according to sources. The story could easily have been floated by Gayle's agent to show Championship managers still wanted their player. A 2year deal on high wages would have likely made the deal a total non starter for us.
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Rob, can you please make your first question at the next press conference about what hoppe and forss have to do to get in the team? Or why were they bought in the first place?
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
Surely he is overseeing the department rather than actually scouting players himself though? Hence the new chief scout being appointed last week. These things might take longer than a year to implement, I don’t think any of us really know how or what it takes to build an industrial-scale scouting and recruitment network in the modern age.
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I am hardly a knee jerker Viv, but this bloke gets off, well, Scott free.
Wilder has been sold short with recruitment that much is very clear.
Scott's only experience has been as a scout as far as I can see. If he hasn't been involved:
1. Who has?
2 Just what has Scott been doing?
 
indeedido said:
Who has been then....?
Of course Scouting falls under him, he is "Head of Football".
13 months on it's not been going too well for Kieran.
Click to expand...
www.thenorthernecho.co.uk

Middlesbrough's head of football Kieran Scott on his Riverside role

AT the start of our interview, a rare opportunity to meet face-to-face in these Covid-affected times, Kieran Scott took his phone out of his pocket…
www.thenorthernecho.co.uk www.thenorthernecho.co.uk

Gibson's decisions are ****. What we need is a new bloke to make football decisions for him.

This new bloke is ****. What we need is a new bloke to make footballing decisions for him.

Personally I'd bring in the cat in the hat.
 
indeedido said:
I am hardly a knee jerker Viv, but this bloke gets off, well, Scott free.
Wilder has been sold short with recruitment that much is very clear.
Scott's only experience has been as a scout as far as I can see. If he hasn't been involved:
1. Who has?
2 Just what has Scott been doing?
Click to expand...
I’m not saying he isn’t involved with recruitment, just saying that he probably isn’t going to watch players as a scout. There will be people employed to do that. There are presumably people employed in the recruitment team to identify and research players.

I imagine Scott has been fairly busy to be fair. How many did we do in January, was it four in and seven out on loan? And then this summer was another 11 in and dozen or players out. There’s been new staff appointed, contracts sorted. We’ve signed players from abroad so presumably contacts and possible new networks are being established and/or explored.

I would say that just because we’re a couple of players short, it doesn’t mean Scott hasn’t been doing anything or deserves to lose his job.

For me, and I’ve said this for a while, the issue we have is that nobody knows who works in the recruitment department. We don’t know what their remit is, are we a data-driven, stats-based department, are we looking for players at home or abroad, what sort of approach do we take when looking for players. We don’t even know how big it is, the scale it works on. I’m sure most clubs keep a lot of that under wraps to be fair.

But for Boro fans there’s a sense that our recruitment department consists of Gibson, Bausor, Scott and Wilder. That just can’t be true. I’d be amazed if we didn’t have a team of people on the payroll as scouts. Maybe one of the reasons Scott was brought in was to oversee a modernisation of this area of the club.

We’re a midfielder light at the moment. The squad is probably two or three light all in all. It’s not the end of the world. There’s another window opening in about a dozen games’ time.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
I would say that just because we’re a couple of players short, it doesn’t mean Scott hasn’t been doing anything or deserves to lose his job.



We’re a midfielder light at the moment. The squad is probably two or three light all in all. It’s not the end of the world. There’s another window opening in about a dozen games’ time.
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We are not a couple of players short. It is about quality not just quantity.
I can't believe you think we are just a midfielder light.

However many people are involved directly, or indirectly in recruitment, it is undoubtedly headed up by Scott.
He has been here over 13 months and our recruitment has been very poor.
We are 22nd and flailing.

Wilder is understandably being criticised for results. I don't understand at all why Scott should not be criticised for recruitment.
 
indeedido said:
We are not a couple of players short. It is about quality not just quantity.
I can't believe you think we are just a midfielder light.

However many people are involved directly, or indirectly in recruitment, it is undoubtedly headed up by Scott.
He has been here over 13 months and our recruitment has been very poor.
We are 22nd and flailing.

Wilder is understandably being criticised for results. I don't understand at all why Scott should not be criticised for recruitment.
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I don’t think you’re being fair TBH.

We need a replacement for Tav. We need to replace Howson, though adding an orthodox defensive midfielder would potentially free up Howson to play slightly further up.

Has the recruitment been very poor? We’ve played 10 games, some of them haven’t been with the club any longer than 5 or 6 weeks yet. What are you judging them against if you’ve decided it’s poor after so little football?

Are Steffen and Roberts better than Lumley and Daniels? Is Lenihan better than Bamba? Is Giles better than Taylor? Is Muniz better than Ikpeazu? Yes, of course they are. Put Tav back into this team and it looks much different IMO.

Also, nobody is saying Scott shouldn’t be under scrutiny for the gaping hole in our midfield. But the bottom line is you don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes, how close deals were, who’s lined up, who outbid us or offered more money. Or - for example - do you think we should’ve just paid Choudhry £40,000 a week?

Maybe the club has a pay structure. Maybe the club is looking after it’s money now. Maybe the club are recouping losses made during Covid, or keeping their powder dry for the next two or three windows. Or maybe sorting issues that have dogged us for years takes a bit longer than a year.

But why does every issue we have have to be somebody’s fault? What if Scott said, “I’ve studied how much cash you’ve burned since relegation and I’d like to build something more sustainable over three or four years, and I don’t think we should be haemorrhaging money on wages any more.”

You don’t know. You know there’s a hole in midfield. You don’t know the lengths people have gone to fill it, you’ve presumed they haven’t gone to any because the hole remains. Or that’s how it reads to me.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
I don’t think you’re being fair TBH.

We need a replacement for Tav. We need to replace Howson, though adding an orthodox defensive midfielder would potentially free up Howson to play slightly further up.

Has the recruitment been very poor? We’ve played 10 games, some of them haven’t been with the club any longer than 5 or 6 weeks yet. What are you judging them against if you’ve decided it’s poor after so little football?

Are Steffen and Roberts better than Lumley and Daniels? Is Lenihan better than Bamba? Is Giles better than Taylor? Is Muniz better than Ikpeazu? Yes, of course they are. Put Tav back into this team and it looks much different IMO.

Also, nobody is saying Scott shouldn’t be under scrutiny for the gaping hole in our midfield. But the bottom line is you don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes, how close deals were, who’s lined up, who outbid us or offered more money. Or - for example - do you think we should’ve just paid Choudhry £40,000 a week?

Maybe the club has a pay structure. Maybe the club is looking after it’s money now. Maybe the club are recouping losses made during Covid, or keeping their powder dry for the next two or three windows. Or maybe sorting issues that have dogged us for years takes a bit longer than a year.

But why does every issue we have have to be somebody’s fault? What if Scott said, “I’ve studied how much cash you’ve burned since relegation and I’d like to build something more sustainable over three or four years, and I don’t think we should be haemorrhaging money on wages any more.”

You don’t know. You know there’s a hole in midfield. You don’t know the lengths people have gone to fill it, you’ve presumed they haven’t gone to any because the hole remains. Or that’s how it reads to me.
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Agree with all of this, very sensible and balanced post.

Our recruitment has been better than seasons past, but we just came up short in terms of how much we wanted to do.

The measure of whether the DofF role will be a success simply can't be made after one transfer window, or two, or three - the journey is much longer than that and is about the club being sustainable and having a strategy. We've seen too many occasions where a new manager has had a 'clear out', only to see precisely the same thing happen when his replacement takes over.

I also think it's refreshing to see us sign players who we think we can develop onto a more rounded version. I repeatedly see fans critical of the Hoppe and Forss signings, suggesting the money should have been used for first team players.

But this logic fails to recognise that both types of signings, first team ready players and development signings, are not mutually exclusive and the club needs to utilise both markets.

It's always the case that fans are over critical when results are poor, in the same way that they can't see any wrong when they're great.

But I think the current strategy is long overdue, its practiced by all the most successful club that we would see as peers and unless we embrace it then our chances of succeeding at EPL level are nil.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
I’m not saying he isn’t involved with recruitment, just saying that he probably isn’t going to watch players as a scout. There will be people employed to do that. There are presumably people employed in the recruitment team to identify and research players.

I imagine Scott has been fairly busy to be fair. How many did we do in January, was it four in and seven out on loan? And then this summer was another 11 in and dozen or players out. There’s been new staff appointed, contracts sorted. We’ve signed players from abroad so presumably contacts and possible new networks are being established and/or explored.

I would say that just because we’re a couple of players short, it doesn’t mean Scott hasn’t been doing anything or deserves to lose his job.

For me, and I’ve said this for a while, the issue we have is that nobody knows who works in the recruitment department. We don’t know what their remit is, are we a data-driven, stats-based department, are we looking for players at home or abroad, what sort of approach do we take when looking for players. We don’t even know how big it is, the scale it works on. I’m sure most clubs keep a lot of that under wraps to be fair.

But for Boro fans there’s a sense that our recruitment department consists of Gibson, Bausor, Scott and Wilder. That just can’t be true. I’d be amazed if we didn’t have a team of people on the payroll as scouts. Maybe one of the reasons Scott was brought in was to oversee a modernisation of this area of the club.

We’re a midfielder light at the moment. The squad is probably two or three light all in all. It’s not the end of the world. There’s another window opening in about a dozen games’ time.
Click to expand...
The squad is probably two or three light all in all. It’s not the end of the world.
As are other teams viv
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
I don’t think you’re being fair TBH.

We need a replacement for Tav. We need to replace Howson, though adding an orthodox defensive midfielder would potentially free up Howson to play slightly further up.

Has the recruitment been very poor? We’ve played 10 games, some of them haven’t been with the club any longer than 5 or 6 weeks yet. What are you judging them against if you’ve decided it’s poor after so little football?

Are Steffen and Roberts better than Lumley and Daniels? Is Lenihan better than Bamba? Is Giles better than Taylor? Is Muniz better than Ikpeazu? Yes, of course they are. Put Tav back into this team and it looks much different IMO.

Also, nobody is saying Scott shouldn’t be under scrutiny for the gaping hole in our midfield. But the bottom line is you don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes, how close deals were, who’s lined up, who outbid us or offered more money. Or - for example - do you think we should’ve just paid Choudhry £40,000 a week?

Maybe the club has a pay structure. Maybe the club is looking after it’s money now. Maybe the club are recouping losses made during Covid, or keeping their powder dry for the next two or three windows. Or maybe sorting issues that have dogged us for years takes a bit longer than a year.

But why does every issue we have have to be somebody’s fault? What if Scott said, “I’ve studied how much cash you’ve burned since relegation and I’d like to build something more sustainable over three or four years, and I don’t think we should be haemorrhaging money on wages any more.”

You don’t know. You know there’s a hole in midfield. You don’t know the lengths people have gone to fill it, you’ve presumed they haven’t gone to any because the hole remains. Or that’s how it reads to me.
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Superb
 
Daily Mail? The ones who backed Thick Lizzies budget, right to the point it tanked our economy.
The Wilder story would have more credibility if the Beano published it rather than the Daily Fail.
 
Gary Gill did an article in the Gazette when he was head of recruitment and named the people under him. I'm sure someone can dig that up. Are they still there under Scott ? Does he trust them to provide the right players? He doesn't scout players, he is involved in signing them . Looks like he presents the scouting teams reccomendations to SG , CW, NB, who say yes or no. We now have Jones to head the recruitment team , which suggests they are looking at improving the department.
That is a positive , because recruitment has not hit the standards the fans , manager and owner expected.
 
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