Covid... Old Age and loneliness

[ChrisTheRed]

I have been on the sad end of this. My Mam (aged 89) was moved out of hospital into a Nursing Home in mid March as they wanted her out of hospital. She was able to get out of bed and walk to the loo with the aid of a walker in hospital. Once she was in the home she was in full lockdown and nobody could visit her.

For the first two months she was in a room upstairs where we could not see her at all. I bought a Portal to try to get to see her but the Wifi was so bad it would never connect so we had to rely on phoning her.

I managed to get her moved to a downstairs room where the family could visit and see her through the window. The change in her condition shocked me. She could not get out of bed as the carers rarely got her out of bed to move her joints (not a complaint with them but just a reflection on how short staffed and busy these people are).

Over the next months the family bought a phone with a holder that could have the phone above her bed so she could see us. We were never allowed in to see her and it was so hard to watch her condition deteriorate each week. I managed to get in to see her after a complaint to the Social Worker to get me in but this was a one off. She just spent all day in bed with no interaction. There were times we had to call the home as we stood outside to tell them Mam needed a drink of water. She did not have the strength to press the call button.

In July this year she passed without getting to see a lot of her family since February. I am convinced she would still be alive today if she had contact with the family and we could have got her out even in the garden and kept her active. However I still also wonder how I would have felt that without knowing it, somebody (even me) would have passed Covid on to her and to other elderly people in the home if they allowed visits.

I really feel for families and for the elderly as I would never wish the March-July heartache my family had but I would take the chance and see them as their quality of life is zero.

I think your story will resonate with many many people and its awful to read and it must have been awful for your mother to go through and end of life like that as it was for you to watch. I'm quite confident that if she had a voice about it she would have chosen to see you everyday over the risk that existed.

 

[ChrisTheRed]

Its a tough one I agree.

At some point though, the balance will have to swing from putting the very elderly at risk from covid first, to putting children with their whole lives ahead of them first. So far, children have just been at the bottom of the pile in terms of priorities. As we're now seeing with the Marcus Rashford episode, it simply cannot stay that way for much longer.

I totally agree with that. We can't simply ignore and destroy the futures of the young for an unknown period of time.

 

[coluka]

So are you suggesting that loneliness and not seeing family would not lead to a downturn in mental health for the elderly?

I am aware of 3 patients in 2 care homes whose life would not be affected one iota with their family being unable to visit and I dare say that applies to many others due to the cruel illness that is dementia. Nothing is cut and dried, black and white. Obviously many will not have the cognitive ability to know, understand or comprehend, while others do and a good proportion will suffer varying degrees of debilitating upset. The risk to all patients in a home is easily compromised and complete lockdown seems the lesser of the evils to me. It is a terrible situation and I feel for anyone in this plight From people I know the safety of their loved one is the priority as the home do a fantastic job in stimulating their residents and facetime, Skype and the like are a godsend for some.

In some cases, maybe the answer would be for the vulnerable loved one to be cared for in a family home, like Sir Toms family did for him. I dare say some family would not be able to provide the care needed though and from my experience, a few might just not want to either, it is a long term commitment, not temporary. It is tough on everyone in different ways and different levels, a matter for individual families to think on, but the homes safety and that of its residents as a group has to be paramount over any specific individuals within.

 

[Alvez_48]

@Ayresome I am sorry to hear that story and I don't doubt that the time you did manage to get in to see her meant a lot to her, the amount of effort you went through to make that happen will have been worth it. Not that it will feel like that.

 

[ChrisTheRed]

I am aware of 3 patients in 2 care homes whose life would not be affected one iota with their family being unable to visit and I dare say that applies to many others due to the cruel illness that is dementia. Nothing is cut and dried, black and white. Obviously many will not have the cognitive ability to know, understand or comprehend, while others do and a good proportion will suffer varying degrees of debilitating upset. The risk to all patients in a home is easily compromised and complete lockdown seems the lesser of the evils to me. It is a terrible situation and I feel for anyone in this plight From people I know the safety of their loved one is the priority as the home do a fantastic job in stimulating their residents and facetime, Skype and the like are a godsend for some.

In some cases, maybe the answer would be for the vulnerable loved one to be cared for in a family home, like Sir Toms family did for him. I dare say some family would not be able to provide the care needed though and from my experience, a few might just not want to either, it is a long term commitment, not temporary. It is tough on everyone in different ways and different levels, a matter for individual families to think on, but the homes safety and that of its residents as a group has to be paramount over any specific individuals within.

Well I think we all know Dementia presents other issues and that the people being the face suffer daily torment as a result of their condition. However, they would still benefit from seeing and dealing with people they "know".

One of my grandparents passed away in May and suffered with Dementia but ultimately he was still human and still enjoyed interacting with his visitors and I can't see how having him locked away would have provided any form of relief for him.

 

[American_Mary]

I’m fortunate in having nobody close to me in that sort of situation, but know how horrible seeing the deterioration of someone you love is to bear at the best of times, can’t imagine the anguish that those in the circumstances are going through, it’s meant to be life not just existence but potentially introducing an infection into an environment that could kill others is a heavy burden to carry, perhaps a palliative care ‘bubble facility’ that meant members of family could spend the final days with their loved ones together might be a, far from ideal but at least offering something, solution, possibly utilise some of the Nightingale hospital facilities.

Heartbreaking to hear of your loss @Ayresome but as Alvez said I’m sure your efforts gave your Mam a lot of solace and know no one could have done more.

 

[coluka]

Well I think we all know Dementia presents other issues and that the people being the face suffer daily torment as a result of their condition. However, they would still benefit from seeing and dealing with people they "know".

One of my grandparents passed away in May and suffered with Dementia but ultimately he was still human and still enjoyed interacting with his visitors and I can't see how having him locked away would have provided any form of relief for him.

And I know of these 3 that do not recognise their own sons and daughters sadly. It is tragic and I am sure there are many others in such a terrible plight. To be asked who you are and when you explain, then get asked again a few minutes later why you are there is, well, I have no words

 

[ChrisTheRed]

And I know of these 3 that do not recognise their own sons and daughters sadly. It is tragic and I am sure there are many others in such a terrible plight. To be asked who you are and when you explain, then get asked again a few minutes later why you are there is, well, I have no words

And no one is doubting that. Why would they?

But it doesnt take away from the point of the post.

We could all pick out elements of things to back up our personal thoughts but at some point we have to look at the bigger picture... The masses.

It should be asked what benefit is there is saving 10 lives if the method used means we destroy and/ or lose another 100?

 

[coluka]

And no one is doubting that. Why would they?

But it doesnt take away from the point of the post.

We could all pick out elements of things to back up our personal thoughts but at some point we have to look at the bigger picture... The masses.

It should be asked what benefit is there is saving 10 lives if the method used means we destroy and/ or lose another 100?

Your point is ‘an element’ too, thats the point, I seriously doubt your figures above bear any resemblence to reality in that it will destroy or kill 91% of residents in care. Nobody doubts it is hard on everybody to varying degrees. It seems the Oxford vaccine is just around the corner. After the medical staff the most vulnerable will surely be the first to receive it and can hopefully begin to have meaningful contact. There is no right or wrong for individual families, but the home, like a hospital has to prioritise for the greater good and have to follow government guidelines. It is a mess, people will be suffering. I am not in a position where it directly impacts me or my immediate loved ones, but i suspect I would side with short term pain over hopefully a bit longer gain after the new year. I understand we have no guarantees though.

 

[ChrisTheRed]

Your point is ‘an element’ too, thats the point, I seriously doubt your figures above bear any resemblence to reality in that it will destroy or kill 91% of residents in care. Nobody doubts it is hard on everybody to varying degrees. It seems the Oxford vaccine is just around the corner. After the medical staff the most vulnerable will surely be the first to receive it and can hopefully begin to have meaningful contact. There is no right or wrong for individual families, but the home, like a hospital has to prioritise for the greater good and have to follow government guidelines. It is a mess, people will be suffering. I am not in a position where it directly impacts me or my immediate loved ones, but i suspect I would side with short term pain over hopefully a bit longer gain after the new year. I understand we have no guarantees though.

From knowledge... I think you'll find a lot of hospital staff will refuse to be Guinea pigs from any vaccine. I know of a fair few that have no intention of having it.

As for my figures... They were clearly placed as an example and at no point did I suggest otherwise. However, it would be impossible to state whether it is or isn't likely to be the case at the minute.