Covid: No plans for October lockdown, says government

Adi_Dem said:
I have been reflecting on this thread with some difficulty. I have re-read my contributions to it a few times. I've been a member of this board and its previous iterations for just about 20 years now and have always enjoyed robust debate on the understanding that it was only ever heated discussion. This feels very different. Whilst I can't see anything repulsive or anything which I particularly regret, the effect I have clearly had on another poster has given me pause for thought. I don't agree with him on the subject matter or his interpretation of my posts but nevertheless I am not prepared to continue to make anybody feel that way. I have been personally touched by suicide and attempted suicide six times in my life and the thought that what I write on here might make someone's day a little bit harder or more challenging or might contribute to those kind of feelings isn't tolerable to me. So I've decided not to contribute for now. I shall continue to read the board but that's it for now I think.

I thought long and hard about whether to post this because I didn't want to make it about me or to trigger an adverse response (which might be inevitable) but I thought it might just serve as a useful reminder that we perhaps need to be a bit more careful with the words we choose or the manner in which we present our arguments. That's what I am going to think about.
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What a brave post Adi.

I too have been knocking around FMTTM for c.20yrs and the one thing I have learnt (for the benefit of my own delicate mental health) is to avoid posting on what I perceive to be argumentative threads. Mainly these are political and, of course, Covid/ lockdown ones.

In my humble opinion, all that happens on those types of threads is that folk bunker down in their own opinions and no one really benefits from the discourse.

Anyway, what do I know? Take care one and all and hopefully the new dynamic Boro will make us all happy.

UTB 👍
 
weemoby said:
What a brave post Adi.

I too have been knocking around FMTTM for c.20yrs and the one thing I have learnt (for the benefit of my own delicate mental health) is to avoid posting on what I perceive to be argumentative threads. Mainly these are political and, of course, Covid/ lockdown ones.

In my humble opinion, all that happens on those types of threads is that folk bunker down in their own opinions and no one really benefits from the discourse.

Anyway, what do I know? Take care one and all and hopefully the new dynamic Boro will make us all happy.

UTB 👍
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Very well put. It’s just a football messageboard lads, it’s not real life.
 
jonny_greenings_sock said:
Very well put. It’s just a football messageboard lads, it’s not real life.
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Agreed, which is how I always see it too i.e. never to take it seriously. I just can't tolerate thinking it might affect someone else in that way.

I think my post may have been slightly misinterpreted and I want to clarify that my personal connection to suicide/attempted suicide has been three friends who did unfortunately pass away and three family members who attempted to take their own life but thankfully didn't. I suspect some may have taken it to mean that it was something that I had considered, which isn't the case and I wouldn't want to mislead anyone.

dooderooni said:
Don't stop posting Adi. Don't stop standing up for your beliefs either.
As far as I can see, nothing offensive or apparent was posted on this thread and we can all choose to read or not read other people's opinions.
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Thanks dood. Just some time out I think to reflect and think about it. Cheers though.
 
We all have our opinions on so many different things and each of have our own personality, problems and pleasures so there’s never going to be consensus on anything (Well, maybe apart from the disastrous Monk regime).

My mother has attempted suicide, the first time when I was 16 years old and due to start college the next day - the reason? I’d just told her my dad (they were divorced when I was 4) and step mum were having a baby. There have been other attempts since, each have become progressively easier to deal with mentally. I’m late forties now, maybe I’m numb to it now, but caused immeasurable pain and difficulty when it first happened.

Anyway, thought I’d share. Please keep posting everyone. 👍
 
Subbuteo_171 said:
Look at the spike in Scotland as soon as the kids went back to school. That’s with the additional restrictions they have - England now has the schools back, more people in the office / on public transport with university to start and with the onset of autumn and winter.

It might not be palatable but unfortunately looks like something will be needed.
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So we know that we can tootle along with everything open apart from schools - maybe the way to deal with Covid without tanking the economy is to make sure schools are finally safe. That would mean:

All teachers vaccinated
Ventilation in all schools to be radically overhauled
Staggered start times / end times / break times
Vaccination of pupils
Modern home schooling options / legislated parental leave for any self isolation periods to reduce spread

We've know since November / Delta that schools are the real spreading ground - it's a shame that the Government, 10 months later, still haven't dealt with the issue. It is no surprise though that we are floundering.
 
dooderooni said:
Aet, we are all aware of the strain the pandemic has put on your mental health, but for everyone like you fearing another lockdown there will be as many people terrified of the continuing high number of cases and the risk a Covid infection would pose to them.
We need to find a way, together as a society, where we both drive down infection numbers AND avoid lockdowns.
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And that just isn't possible... Life is for living. Live it. If it was 50/50 whether I die of Covid I'd take the risk because life has been crap. And has been for millions. So if you support more lockdown, restrictions, firebreaks or whatever other guff Johnson will come out with, I don't want to know and to be frank, you're a selfish idiot.
 
MolteniArcore said:
So we know that we can tootle along with everything open apart from schools - maybe the way to deal with Covid without tanking the economy is to make sure schools are finally safe. That would mean:

All teachers vaccinated
Ventilation in all schools to be radically overhauled
Staggered start times / end times / break times
Vaccination of pupils
Modern home schooling options / legislated parental leave for any self isolation periods to reduce spread

We've know since November / Delta that schools are the real spreading ground - it's a shame that the Government, 10 months later, still haven't dealt with the issue. It is no surprise though that we are floundering.
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Molten I suspect schools have been ignored because it's a knotty problem. The vaccination uptake among school aged children will be very low. Putting correct ventilation in will be expensive so that ain't gonna happen any time soon.

The government will continue to ignore the problem.

I think we should open up vaccinations for kids and let their parents decide, some will go with it, particularly for the older school children who are old enough to make informed decisions along with their parents. It will help the overall strategy.

The problem we have is there is no overall strategy that is why we are where we are.

All very disappointing that vaccinations haven't been quite as effective as we had hoped.
 
Stellify said:
And that just isn't possible... Life is for living. Live it. If it was 50/50 whether I die of Covid I'd take the risk because life has been crap. And has been for millions. So if you support more lockdown, restrictions, firebreaks or whatever other guff Johnson will come out with, I don't want to know and to be frank, you're a selfish idiot.
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Fairly certain almost anyone in such a vulnerable position wouldnt be wanting to take that risk just because "life is for living"
 
JM14 said:
Fairly certain almost anyone in such a vulnerable position wouldnt be wanting to take that risk just because "life is for living"
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Exactly. "life is for living" is all well and good. But if you're susceptible to the disease life shouldn't be for dying.
 
Stellify said:
Okay. Let's make 5 million lifes unbearable, upbrignings ruined and life a waste of time for many. Cheers.
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No offence but that seems like a strong over reaction. Yes, times are hard at the moment and it's not been great. As far as Covid restrictions go though we've had it a lot better than most. Only one true lockdown and very loose and loosely followed restrictions the rest of the time. I'm not saying it's been a bed of roses but it's been better restrictions wise than most countries. That has, sadly, led to more deaths than most countries as well.
 
No live music, no sporting events, against the law to see family... Yeh, I've over reacted. "We've had it a lot better than most" - I couldn't care what other countries chose to do. My life, in this country, has barely been worth living. The same for the thousands who have committed suicide, the same for the 600 a week dying at home without covid. But everyone carry on, blinded by " let's save lives from covid"

You are massively deluded if you think, long term, we have done the right thing. In 10 years this will have been the worst public health policy ever. UtB.
 
Late lockdowns and open borders are the reasons for the high death toll in the UK not the actual restrictions themselves. They were introduced too late and subsequently had to go on too long for the desired impact.

Ultimately, I don't see an easy way out of this other than herd immunity gained through either vaccinations and boosters or people catching it and developing natural immunity.

The 2 sides of the lockdown coin have validity. I don't want to see another one, but would accept it, but I have a secure job, I am used to working from home and I have good mental health and live with family. Not everyone is in that particular life raft.

My dad, who is vulnerable, is still very nervous, my f-i-l is vulnerable and wants to live his remaining years and an old man in the village I live in thought lockdown was tantamount to being in jail for the offence of being old. Even the vulnerable have differing opinions of how they want to live their lives.
 
Stellify said:
No live music, no sporting events, against the law to see family... Yeh, I've over reacted. "We've had it a lot better than most" - I couldn't care what other countries chose to do. My life, in this country, has barely been worth living. The same for the thousands who have committed suicide, the same for the 600 a week dying at home without covid. But everyone carry on, blinded by " let's save lives from covid"

You are massively deluded if you think, long term, we have done the right thing. In 10 years this will have been the worst public health policy ever. UtB.
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If we let covid rip through the population with no preventative measures in place, many more will end up dying at home because of either the risk of going into hospitals full of covid, or if a hospital is running at capacity then they are unable to get treatment

We only talk about the mental health issues from lockdown, but what about the issues for those who have lost family to covid, those that are still at high risk, those suffering with long covid etc

Its not like everyone has just suddenly decided to focus on covid and ignore everything else, if you let something like this go through a population without measures, you will always get impacts in all other arears, which we have seen for the last two years
 
Laughing said:
Late lockdowns and open borders are the reasons for the high death toll in the UK not the actual restrictions themselves. They were introduced too late and subsequently had to go on too long for the desired impact.

Ultimately, I don't see an easy way out of this other than herd immunity gained through either vaccinations and boosters or people catching it and developing natural immunity.

The 2 sides of the lockdown coin have validity. I don't want to see another one, but would accept it, but I have a secure job, I am used to working from home and I have good mental health and live with family. Not everyone is in that particular life raft.

My dad, who is vulnerable, is still very nervous, my f-i-l is vulnerable and wants to live his remaining years and an old man in the village I live in thought lockdown was tantamount to being in jail for the offence of being old. Even the vulnerable have differing opinions of how they want to live their lives.
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My grandad is 76. I took him to Whitby when things re-opened. He hasn't left the house since at how pathetic it was. Masks, faceless conversations, Apps for everything, Signs everywhere, can't sit here etc. He is now anti lockdown and will take his own decisions in life on what risks he wants to take. But said that no one should live life like that if they want to live. We have spent £400bn, protected no one, targeted support was non existant. 80% of the population need no protection what-so-ever. It is pathetic.

Let's lock kids up for 1/5 of their life ( if 9 years old ) and pretend it is saving lives. Seriously, It is grim. It would have made more sense to let everyone under 50 to have zero guidance. Live life. Over 50, take precautions, state to pay for shopping, avoid busy places, pubs etc, arrange calls or whatever. Over 70, strict guidance, do not mix, state will pay for a tablet/support/councilling, visits etc and do a weekly shop for free. It would have cost far less, isolated those that needed to in a more robust way and let those that need no protection to keep things moving and not be burdened.

Here we are. Arguing over whether 600 excess deaths per week ( none covid and in the younger ), banning people from seeing family, banning any sort of hobby is worth it. It is depressing. I want to get off.
 
Adi_Dem said:
I thought long and hard about whether to post this because I didn't want to make it about me or to trigger an adverse response (which might be inevitable) but I thought it might just serve as a useful reminder that we perhaps need to be a bit more careful with the words we choose or the manner in which we present our arguments. That's what I am going to think about.
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amazing post Adi, and of course today is world suicide prevention day. I'm acutely aware of this as there are posts on some young widows and widower groups I'm in. The biggest cause of men being in the group is cancer, for women it's largely suicide that makes them eligible for the groups. We all probably need to consider our impacts on other people more often, none of us live in a bubble, we are all responsible for each other to a degree
 
JM14 said:
If we let covid rip through the population with no preventative measures in place, many more will end up dying at home because of either the risk of going into hospitals full of covid, or if a hospital is running at capacity then they are unable to get treatment
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the argument that a limit on our freedoms is causing a public health issue needs balancing against the loss of lives, the shortening of lives through long covid and the mental health of losing family, loved ones, friends too soon.
 
We can argue all we want about how it affects different individuals or groups of people but the government has to deal with the big numbers. Overall, mortality was around 20% up in 2020 from 2019 and in 2021 has fallen, but only around half way back. If it looks like it's rising again, they'll implement new measures.

They've been completely reactive and very selective in what they've done for political reasons but it's the numbers that they react to.

I am hoping there doesn't have to be another lockdown but if it happens it will be because they can't not have one, rather than wanting to.
 
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