Chris Wilder

None of us knew the Burnley incident was going to happen souring everybody's relationship with Wilder at the club.
We were riding high but at the end of the day we were just a steeping stone to him.
 
None of us knew the Burnley incident was going to happen souring everybody's relationship with Wilder at the club.
We were riding high but at the end of the day we were just a steeping stone to him.
Again worth pointing out again that results were deteriorating before the "Burnley incident"
 
Again worth pointing out again that results were deteriorating before the "Burnley incident"
Regardless of if they were, I reckon he lost the dressing room and the fan base when the 'Burnley incident' happened. There was no turning back
 
relied too much on players self discipline believing because they earned a wedge and were full time pros they didnt need an support ... a "sort it out" mentality
 
Again worth pointing out again that results were deteriorating before the "Burnley incident"
After the initial loss and draw from his first two games, we went on a run of played 11, won 8, draw 2, lose 1 under Wilder. The last one in that sequence was a 4-1 victory over Derby county on the 12th of February. In total this was played 13, won 8, draw 3, lose 2: just over 2 points per game. That was the high water mark. On 23rd February, Wilder was at the Burnley vs Spurs match, supposedly to scout spurs before the cup match on March 1st. From the 19th February our record for the next 10 was won 4, draw 1, lose 5. Clearly a massive deterioration and not just in results but in some shocking performances. Wilder's manner also changed notably. After an initial great start, you always expect results to dip for a while before recovering and you could explain Wilder's manner as being driven by poor results and performances but results and performances never recovered.

Dyche was sacked in April but there was definitely a period throughout March where it looks like Wilder was expecting to jump ship as soon as the bat signal came from Burnley. It never came, at least not for him. During that team, results and performances got worse and kept on getting worse.
 
Regardless of if they were, I reckon he lost the dressing room and the fan base when the 'Burnley incident' happened. There was no turning back
Im absolutely certain he had started to lose the dressing room before courting Burnley. Burnley is a bit of a red herring as far as i am concerned.

The players must have sensed that things weren't right or his heart wasnt 100% before he started looing for how he could advance his career.
 
I think there's two stories here.

First what happened during the last third of 2021-22, and in particular the Burnley saga. I'm not that interested in that to be honest, based on lots of speculation and personal inferences.

The other story is the period between his "state of the nation" rant after the Preston defeat at the end of last season and his sacking. That's just a binge of red warnings about the bloke.

It started with the Preston rant - all of a sudden the players who'd got us into the playoff position and the cup quarters were the worst of the worst, definitely nothing he could have done. Then the disjointed recruitment between him wanting to replay all the old hits and the club wanting to build something sustainable. After that the games at the start of this season were just a remarkable display of finger pointing, petulance and misdirection.

I'm not saying I could see all this at the time, loyalty and optimism are real enemies of objectivity, but looking back now I can't imagine a single scenario where things could have been different. A narcissist, an ideologue and a sociopath. Good riddance.

Come back at me in a year when we're saying the same about Carrick. Nah, can't see it to be honest - whatever happens on the pitch, I doubt we'll ever look back in anger on his period in charge.
 
Wilder has a massive ego and threw anyone he could under the bus when things didn't go well, he burnt every bridge, Carrick despite all his success doesn't have a big ego, that's the key difference. Can't remember the last time the players all looked so happy and confident.
 
Come back at me in a year when we're saying the same about Carrick. Nah, can't see it to be honest - whatever happens on the pitch, I doubt we'll ever look back in anger on his period in charge.
I suspect you're right. It might turn out that Carrick simply has a good few months but then can't build his own team and fades away. All the things he is lauded for now will be turned on him and he'll be kicked out with us flatlining in the Championship. That might happen but, like Woodgate, I think if it does that fans will say he tried but wasn't good enough. I don't see him going on some sort of Wilder/Karanka soap opera kind of thing.

I do think it's too early to make a judgement about Carrick. His initial tactics and man-management of players he has inherited have been spot on but that is often the easy thing. The next test is will be whether he can sustain it and whether he can integrate new players. This is where Warnock and Wilder both failed; in Wilder's case catastrophically.
 
At this moment Carrick is looking brilliant but we don't know what the future holds .Most managers go from hero to villain wait and see,for now looking like the best in years.
 
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