Care home culling letter

Do you know what CPR would entail for an elderly person?

A few years ago we had to take the DNR decision for an elderly person in our family. We talked to doctors and nurses about it.

If an elderly person has a cardiac arrest it will be difficult to resuscitate them quickly if at all, the process is very likely to break several ribs and potentially cause damage to other organs, if the heart has stopped for a protracted period it is very likely that there will be brain damage as the brain will be deprived of oxygen. If an elderly patient cardiac arrests it is simply their time.

Thankfully, in our case the person died peacefully in their sleep. Stop spreading scare stories.
 
More fear fear fear doom doom... This is completely sensible decision making I hope this allows the people affected to know their loved ones are with people who care for them on a daily basis

"Unlikely to benefit from mechanical ventilation" bear.
 
Other vulnerable groups are being asked to sign, (i posted a link on another thread a few days ago) like the physically disabled and those with learning disabilities.
 
bull**** they would ask those with learning disabilities to sign DNR forms. That's a malpractice claim waiting to happen.
 
Care home residents won't be admitted to hospital its trust policy to leave them in the care homes if covid is suspected. Unfortunately at the age these residents are recovery is unlikely. The real tradgey is because of the infectious nature of corona most will die without the normal levels of nursing care and the comfort of family members
 
Anyone who thinks this level of triage should be neccessary in the 6th biggest economy in the world are part of the problem. Had ventillators been ordered sooner staff may not have had to make these decisions.
 
This isn't new, it happens constantly across the country, pandemic or no pandemic. My grandma died from pneumonia after complications arising from a chest infection. She'd been admitted to hospital from a care home after my mother drove her there. Her GP (who works in a surgery approximately 150m from the care home) wouldn't visit her because at her age she was not a priority, this went on for 3 days before she got so ill she had to give in and let my mother take her to the hospital. She would almost certainly recovered from the chest infection if she had been seen by the GP, for how long nobody knows. Once you get over the bitterness you realise it's a fact of life these days with over-subscription and shortages.
 
RandySavage said:
bullsh*t they would ask those with learning disabilities to sign DNR forms. That's a malpractice claim waiting to happen.
Click to expand...

This is the tweet I linked in another thread a few days ago by a man who describes himself thus:
"Chief Executive at Voyage Care, supporting adults with learning & physical disabilities, brain injuries & autism. Co-founder of Learning Disability Voices."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1245415024396587008
 
Even pre Coronaviru, anybody who has had elderly parents very ill in hospital will be familiar with the DNR conversation with the consultants.

Unfortunately this virus will have made it worse but these choices have always had to be made for the old and ill.
 
As I've posted before, the situation in care homes is likely to become desperate as we've already seen in France, where large numbers of residents have died once the virus has found a way in. Public pressure forced the french government to include the deaths outside of hospital (mostly in care homes) in the overall total, but most countries I believe still do not include them. The french figures indicate that over 20% of the total deaths have occurred in care homes and is likely to rise.

My mother had a DNR order and was also in a care home, so I'm aware of what CPR means to an older person. However, I think this letter and I've seen variations of it is another thing altogether. It is basically saying that we do not have the resources in terms of both equipment (respirators) and personnel at this time to treat those with limited chance of survival. That is the crux of it, and these decisions are being taken daily in hospitals (with people of all ages) that do not have the means to care for everybody. Why there is not enough equipment or personnel to save more/all people suffering from the virus is for us as individuals to contemplate. I can only say that I'm glad my parents both went before this crisis.
 
Here is what happens if a hospital is stretched beyond the limits.

I have written elsewhere on here of the horror that I felt watching a doctor having to choose who lives and dies in Madrid. Based on age. With a cut off age of 65. With people either not being given access to ventilators or people being taken off ventilators to give the ventilator to someone younger.

It was from 27 March and was on youtube then referred to on Facebook. youtube took it down a couple of days later.

I was sobbing for ages afterwards. Just watching how the doctor was shouting and crying while making the video did me in.
 
Last edited:
Baggins said:
This isn't new, it happens constantly across the country, pandemic or no pandemic. My grandma died from pneumonia after complications arising from a chest infection. She'd been admitted to hospital from a care home after my mother drove her there. Her GP (who works in a surgery approximately 150m from the care home) wouldn't visit her because at her age she was not a priority, this went on for 3 days before she got so ill she had to give in and let my mother take her to the hospital. She would almost certainly recovered from the chest infection if she had been seen by the GP, for how long nobody knows. Once you get over the bitterness you realise it's a fact of life these days with over-subscription and shortages.
Click to expand...
Sorry for your loss Baggins.

That is the point I am making. Add in the shortage on ventillators to the equation and you get a nation triaging like it was a battlefield. It shouldn't happen, pandemic or not. Your grandma shouldn't have had to accept that and neither should anyone else.
 
HolgateCorner said:
Even pre Coronaviru, anybody who has had elderly parents very ill in hospital will be familiar with the DNR conversation with the consultants.

Unfortunately this virus will have made it worse but these choices have always had to be made for the old and ill.
Click to expand...
Holgate the decision should be the families not the treating physicians! Generally it is, because of the pandemic doctors are taking that decision away from families. To be clear I am not blaming doctors, quite the opposite, they are being asked to make horrendous decisions.
 
Laughing said:
Holgate the decision should be the families not the treating physicians! Generally it is, because of the pandemic doctors are taking that decision away from families. To be clear I am not blaming doctors, quite the opposite, they are being asked to make horrendous decisions.
Click to expand...
See my comment about the hospital in Madrid above. This is perhaps what is coming to the UK soon. As you are perhaps a couple of weeks behind us. Fingers crossed you get some extra ventilators soon. Plus have enough people to operate them.
 
spanishman said:
See my comment about the hospital in Madrid above. This is perhaps what is coming to the UK soon. As you are perhaps a couple of weeks behind us. Fingers crossed you get some extra ventilators soon. Plus have enough people to operate them.
Click to expand...
Here's hoping Spanishman, it seems NHS England are already contemplating the awful decisions they will be forced to make. It is utterly scandalous and should not be happening.
 
The salient points here for me are as follows:

1. The DNR in care homes are not on an individual basis but across the board regardless of chance of survival.

2. Non admittance to hospital in all cases which means that their chances of survival are reduced.

3. Access to proper PPE for care home staff given the shortages in other areas.

4. Deaths outside hospitals are not included in the daily figures for Covid-19 therefore not accurately representing the situation.

We know that it’s an extremely difficult time and alternative, workable solutions to some of the above are in short supply but on the basis of where they reside doesn’t fit well with me and those that die in care homes need to be included in the figures to paint a more accurate picture of where we are currently at.
 
Laughing said:
Here's hoping Spanishman, it seems NHS England are already contemplating the awful decisions they will be forced to make. It is utterly scandalous and should not be happening.
Click to expand...

They have been briefed on the criteria already and with the peak death toll forecast in a weeks time are expecting to have to carry it out soon, JCUH have an additional 24 Covid Beds available given them a capacity of 128 as of yesterday.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top