Can't get British workers
- Thread starter Redwurzel
- Start date
Ironops
Well-known member
Farms tend to be out in the countryside, people tend to live in towns and cities. Most British people are looking for steady full time employment, not casual seasonal work - especially when that work is out in the middle of nowhere. Young people aspire to more than casual labour, back breaking work for minimum wage - there are plenty of minimum wage jobs on people doorsteps. People not wanting to work for you doesn't make them lazy, they have a choice.
But none of the above fits the narrative of the Daily Mail who are now seemingly trying to blame their own potential readers for the disaster of Brexit and the failures of the last 13 years of Tory ineptitude.
But none of the above fits the narrative of the Daily Mail who are now seemingly trying to blame their own potential readers for the disaster of Brexit and the failures of the last 13 years of Tory ineptitude.
The harsh reality for the Daily Mail and the government is that there really isn't a pool of people waiting to be forced into the fields or the care industry. Even in higher unemployment areas most people who want a job or who are capable of working have some level of paid work, they definitely don't have well-paid or satisfying employment in a lot of cases but then, not sure that's what the latest push to get more "Brits" to do jobs is offering.
The Tory and before that Labour gravy train of cheap labour and low investment in training to drive corporate profits and GDP growth has come to the inevitable conclusion.
The Tory and before that Labour gravy train of cheap labour and low investment in training to drive corporate profits and GDP growth has come to the inevitable conclusion.
ThePrisoner
Well-known member
"
Yeah, and we used to have to kidnap people from Africa to harvest 'our' sugar. And they would again, if they could.
We HAVE to hire foreign labourers from ex-Soviet republics to work on our farms - because Brits are so 'workshy': British farmers heap praise on new Asian workforce picking fruit and veg after claiming locals 'don't want to get their hands dirty'
"Yeah, and we used to have to kidnap people from Africa to harvest 'our' sugar. And they would again, if they could.
TeaCider
Well-known member
It's hard, tiring work and it's not well paid.
Small surprise that it's not a popular choice and we have to bring over poor workers from abroad to do it.
It's not hard to understand but our papers love to whip up a culture war.
They'd also kick off if the price of food went up to make it a more appealing job choice to British workers.
Small surprise that it's not a popular choice and we have to bring over poor workers from abroad to do it.
It's not hard to understand but our papers love to whip up a culture war.
They'd also kick off if the price of food went up to make it a more appealing job choice to British workers.
GibbosEmpire
Well-known member
In all the years I've been working, I don't think I've ever seen farm work, like fruit and veg picking on recruitment websites like Indeed or Reed. I genuinely wouldn't mind doing a job like that if it's decent pay, but I'm not getting out of bed for anything less than £12 an hour, unless it's to gain experience in a field (no pun intended) want to do.
Fruit picking is the most obvious case of exploitation and businesses refusing to pay the market rate going. People aren't workshy, they just won't do a worse job for the same money when an easier and more convenient one exists. The reality is that unskilled jobs are competing with each other. All being equal then people will choose the job they most enjoy/least dislike doing for the hours they want in a location that suits them. Every thing your job involves that makes it worse than another means you have to offer something additional to make it worthwhile. If the job is seasonal, out of the way, outside and hard to do then you can't compete with other jobs by offering the same pay. These jobs have to pay more and significantly more to make it worthwhile.
Farming is even more exploitative than others because it offers well below minimum wage by stealth because they insist on their staff living on site in multi-person occupancy rooms with a load of strangers, often in things like old huts or shipping crates, charging for the privilege and then selling them all their goods via the on-site shop because they have no access to transport. These farmers have no intention of ever giving jobs to locals because it would cost them a lot more to do so.
It's horrendously exploitative and I can't believe how many arguments I have had with people that defend it because it gets justified as them making more money than they could in their home country. Other sectors are similar like live in carers etc. Basically anyone paying minimum wage and offering accommodation, especially if it is a deduction from their wage and it is compulsory is probably being exploitative. Anyone who's job is tied their living arrangements and visas is at risk of exploitation. They are also far less likely to speak up when things aren't up to scratch as well.
If the job is more difficult than stacking shelves in Tesco then you can't expect anyone to choose that job for the same salary. Make the jobs pay and people will do the work. We should not be allowing major businesses to import people to undercut wages. No doubt there is a middleman agency involved in all of these sectors creaming cash off the top as well and that's why they are happy for the practice to continue.
Farming is even more exploitative than others because it offers well below minimum wage by stealth because they insist on their staff living on site in multi-person occupancy rooms with a load of strangers, often in things like old huts or shipping crates, charging for the privilege and then selling them all their goods via the on-site shop because they have no access to transport. These farmers have no intention of ever giving jobs to locals because it would cost them a lot more to do so.
It's horrendously exploitative and I can't believe how many arguments I have had with people that defend it because it gets justified as them making more money than they could in their home country. Other sectors are similar like live in carers etc. Basically anyone paying minimum wage and offering accommodation, especially if it is a deduction from their wage and it is compulsory is probably being exploitative. Anyone who's job is tied their living arrangements and visas is at risk of exploitation. They are also far less likely to speak up when things aren't up to scratch as well.
If the job is more difficult than stacking shelves in Tesco then you can't expect anyone to choose that job for the same salary. Make the jobs pay and people will do the work. We should not be allowing major businesses to import people to undercut wages. No doubt there is a middleman agency involved in all of these sectors creaming cash off the top as well and that's why they are happy for the practice to continue.
SilentProf
Well-known member
They're paying them about 3 weeks pay every day compared to what they could earn at home. I bet they would get plenty of interest from locals if they were getting the same deal.
ThePrisoner
Well-known member
The government: We must stop the boats
Also the government: We must encourage immigration by making it cheaper for businesses to hire foreigners than UK citizens.
Don't think that is right. I think it is 80% of average wage for the role. You can't directly pay less than minimum wage.
Perhaps I - I thought during PMQ's Starmer was scorning Sunak be cause he did not know that overseas workers could be paid 80% of a wage. I assumed it was the MW he was talking about.
Skilled Worker visa
Apply for a Skilled Worker visa (formerly a Tier 2 General work visa) if you’ve been offered a skilled job with a UK employer - eligibility, fees, documents, extend, switch or update, bring your partner and children, taking on additional work.
To be honest, it's worse when you consider what the repercussions are. The minimum wage is the minimum so employers can't directly pay below that which means wages aren't reduced for everyone but in skilled work, and for highly skilled people with PhDs etc as mentioned in the link, it is a kick in the teeth to know that employers can recruit at 80% because it just drags wages down for everyone. Businesses are gaming the system and adding specific criteria they know will allow them to claim the job can't be filled by a UK worker.
ThePrisoner
Well-known member
Who says Brexit isn't working. This is *exactly* what was intended.Skilled Worker visa
Apply for a Skilled Worker visa (formerly a Tier 2 General work visa) if you’ve been offered a skilled job with a UK employer - eligibility, fees, documents, extend, switch or update, bring your partner and children, taking on additional work.www.gov.uk
To be honest, it's worse when you consider what the repercussions are. The minimum wage is the minimum so employers can't directly pay below that which means wages aren't reduced for everyone but in skilled work, and for highly skilled people with PhDs etc as mentioned in the link, it is a kick in the teeth to know that employers can recruit at 80% because it just drags wages down for everyone. Businesses are gaming the system and adding specific criteria they know will allow them to claim the job can't be filled by a UK worker.
Brexit has worked. I fully agree with us being able to decide what the rules should be on who is able to come to the UK. I don't agree on the rules that have been chosen and ideally they will be improved. There are a lot of things that Brexit allows us to do which the Tories have done badly. The optimistic side of me thinks that over the next 5, 10, 20+ years more competent people will be in charge (even the Tories again) and they will make decisions based on improving the existing situation rather than fighting and posturing over a divisive decision made a decade or more earlier.
jam69
Well-known member
And they can,now we have left the EU pay them 20% less than UK workers
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
The lazy working class are the ones hoovering up Daily Mail nonsense and regurgitating it.
asredastheycome
Well-known member
They pay them as low as they can and then claw a big chunk of it back to stay in containers, or as the article says up to six in a campervan.
Saw an article about a local girl who was refused a job as she lived too close to the farm and they wanted her to stay aon the farm in their 8 man containers. Is it sny wonder Brits don't want to work there.
Yes. I mentioned that in my earlier post about farmers exploiting workers. That point was about the 80% rule via the skilled worker visa.