Absolutely class based on what? The 14 minutes of professional league football you've seen him play in his entire life? - Flo Balogun was "absolutely class" in youth football too.
Buy Gyokeres for any price?
- Thread starter lostinyorkshire
- Start date
Andy_W
Well-known member
You can't lump Rhodes with Gestede
Rhodes was a poacher, and thrives in attacking teams which get the ball in the opposition box a lot, we didn't do that. The manager didn't want him and had zero intention of playing that way, but that was fair enough as our defence was rock solid. He still got 6 goals in 13 starts and 5 sub appearances, averaging a goal every 190 minutes, which is good all things considered. Plus we got promoted and got our money back.
Gestede only got 4 in 18 in the season before he came to us , in the Championship, and that was playing for Villa who underperformed. I'd have avoided that transfer, especially at 6m for a 28 year old. There were few signs it would have worked in the Championship, never mind we signed him in the Jan transfer window when we were in the prem. Shocking business.
You can't lump Rhodes with Gestede
Rhodes was a poacher, and thrives in attacking teams which get the ball in the opposition box a lot, we didn't do that. The manager didn't want him and had zero intention of playing that way, but that was fair enough as our defence was rock solid. He still got 6 goals in 13 starts and 5 sub appearances, averaging a goal every 190 minutes, which is good all things considered. Plus we got promoted and got our money back.
Gestede only got 4 in 18 in the season before he came to us , in the Championship, and that was playing for Villa who underperformed. I'd have avoided that transfer, especially at 6m for a 28 year old. There were few signs it would have worked in the Championship, never mind we signed him in the Jan transfer window when we were in the prem. Shocking business.
The concept still applies though - I don't think Rhodes was worth the £10m we paid, and I don't think Gestede was worth the £6m we paid - Both on really high wages too.
Gyokores might turn into an absolute world beater and it might be the best signing we ever make. But it's 50/50... He might just be added to the ever growing pile of mistakes too.
indeedido
Well-known member
Andy_W
Well-known member
I think it's more like 90% chance he gets 15 goals or more (for us), and maybe 70% he gets 20 or more (for us). Most bookies have him between 14 and 20/1 to be championship top scorer, and that's with Coventry, and to get top scorer he would probably need 25, maybe even 30.
He's clearly not a donkey, and clearly a very, very good player, so I'm not quite sure what the worst that could happen would be, other than him getting severely injured.
Sporar would have got 10 for us last year, and he wasn't great. Most slag off Britt and he got 15 and 14 in his first two seasons with poor supply. Gyokeres is clearly much better than both of them, and we've probably got better supply and more attacking mindset this year than we've had in the last decade.
indeedido
Well-known member
Just stop it with that sort of common sense.
allied_assault
Well-known member
Agreed but Boro haven't bid for him!!
Chappy112
Well-known member
It's not though is it? It's just more numbers he's plucked out of thin air
Probably best we don't look at the odds for last seasons top scorers before the season started.
I love the ambition, but whatever you two are smoking, I want some.
70% chance he'd scores more goals than any other striker has for Boro in the past 30-40 years? based off one good season for Coventry...
Andy_W
Well-known member
70% for 20 may be a tad high, but I'd give him 70% he could outscore any of our previous strikers in the Championship. I think everyone would count that as more than a success, and would probably count 16+ a success if he also played well (I think he would do better).
He looked a better player last year than any of our championship strikers have, before we bought any of them and including the seasons they did well for us.
The big difference this year is he would have some good service, attacking football and a good manager, it's a combination we've not had in the Championship before. We've had one or two of those pieces a few times, but never all three.
The last time we had a good striker, with a good manager, a good 1st 11 and some good service was late 80's/ early 90's, when Slaven got over 20.
In that last 30 years since we've been in the prem for half that, I'm not saying he'd do it in the prem, far from it.
Nobodies happy with that, but you can't throw £15m and 30k/week at yet another striker, then make a claim that there's a 70% chance he scores more than any other striker we've had in 40 years...
It's a ridiculous claim.. You're the same type of fans who'll have been saying the same thing before we signed Britt, and Rhodes, and Alves, and Gestede... The old strategy wasn't working, so why keep doing it?
We need to be finding the next Gyokores before he scores the 17 and multiplies his value and wages by 15x. Coventry signed him from Brighton for 1m.
Quicksilvera
Well-known member
I have a sneaking suspicion that Gyokeres is very much on our radar.
lostinyorkshire
Well-known member
You dont remember the gazette poll when we we linked with Gestede then
Should boro sign Gestede?
Yes 0%
No 100%
We will never know the truth about who was responsible for how stupid that signing was
festa5
Well-known member
Even worse, I think Leeds offered us our money back for him didn't they and Monk said no
Andy_W
Well-known member
It's ~30 years, and only half that time in the second tier (where we would expect to be near the top, and hence 20 goals far more likely), most of those with no supply, average sides or poor managers.
Britt could have got 20, in either of his first two season had he started every game, even with Monk and Pulis. He got 14 & 15 from ~30 starts in each year. I think Giles and Jones will provide more than he had then also, and would assume the Britt from then could get 20 in this side.
Rhodes got 6 goals in 13 starts, and that was playing for Karanka who didn't want him and who played to suit our defensive strength. We didn't need a 20 goal striker then, or to create a lot, as we didn't let anything in. The Rhodes from then would probably get 20 in this side.
The above two were just goal scorers though, Gyokeres clearly has more to his game, in addition to him being able to find the net.
It's not just the striker who is the reason for goals, Messi would score zero if we never had the ball. You need the player combined with the supply, team style, the manager, and he also needs to be starting nearly all the games etc. Having only one piece won't work, and having two probably won't either. I think most of us agree we have great supply this year, have faith in the manager and we won't be playing defensive, there's a lot of boxes there already ticked.
coluka
Well-known member
Here’s the rub if you apply that rule to Gykores, you apply it to every successful player of that level. So if you do not go down the line of buying a more proven quality product that is far more likely to deliver, you go down the route of buying rough diamonds where you are putting your money on hope, time and time again and, more likely condeming the team to be trapped in a vortex of mediocrity year after year after year, risking an occasional flirtation with league one like others have done in the past and financial waste more than the occasional gain.
Most people seem to think Wilder is the best manager we have had in a long time. The guy is ambitious and wants to manage in the PL. Mediocrity is not an option. He will be off faster than a plate of sausages left out in a heatwave. Buying players like Forss, Hoppe, hoping Watmore and Coburn will suddenly become supermen and hoping Akpomb might be like signing a new striker clearly shows no ambition whatsoever, a lack understanding of how transfer fees are amortised and, how ffp actually works. We are not in any ffp danger and nor would we be if we signed Gykores even at £15M, spread over several years (and I am sure available for much less as the window nears if a PL team does not make contact) money would be available with astute loans and signings to bolster the squad in other areas. It is not sign Gykores and we go with a weaker squad we can both sign him and fill the gaps with loans and astute quality signings without mortgaging the club to within an inch of Derby, as some seemingly think would be a doomsday inevitability.
Gibson hopefully wants and ideally hopes for promotion sooner than later. To do so requires spending some of the Windfall money. Promotion will be far more likely with Gykores than with Hoppe and his ilk. For me Forss should be no higher than our number 3 striker at best once the window shuts, ideally, number 4. We need to be bold in an average Championship year or risk being left behind moaning a bucketful that we ended up 8th bemoaning a lack of golden opportunities missed as our strikers were not clinical enough.
RIP Courage, Bravery, Ambition and Hutzpah
I agree, but teams don't just magically acquire these £10-20m players before they are worth £15-20m... They spend time and resources scouting them.
We employ a recruitment TEAM, we have a scouting TEAM. If we're just going roll the dice and pay the asking price for the top scorer in the championship every time we have the money to do so... what's the point?
If we did buy Gyokores, and he doesn't work out... We'll find ourselves like we do every other 2-3 season cycle... Hiring a Mowbray/Pulis type to trim wages and reshape the squad (again).
Coventry bought Gyokeres for £1m, 12 months ago. Now they want £10m+ (probably closer to £15m)... Instead of just paying it and hoping he's still as good for us, invest the money in finding the next one.
BoroMart
Well-known member
agree completely, we have to have a strategy, not just make tactical decisions to buy whoever had a great year last year, that means their cost will be high, and we won't be able to sustain that. We have to work smarter.