But the ball went backwards ref!

clay said:
Don't forget, you've got an advantage here over other football fans. Years of following Boro has made you an expert in backwards and sideways passing.
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What is this "passing" you talk of?

I've heard rumours from some old timers, but suspected it was an urban myth.
 
TeaCider said:
"A player is in an offside position if any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent"

It is a rule.
If you're behind the ball when it's played, you're not offside.
It's one of the first things mentioned in the offside laws.

The issue here is that VAR decided that Kane was ahead of the ball, nothing else.
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Yes of course that's the law I'm referring to, but nowhere does it say that you can't be offside from a backwards pass.
 
It's interesting to see the opinions on this, but it's a logical fallacy to state that as you have to be ahead of the ball to be offside, you can't therefore be offside from a backwards pass.
 
WilliamMunny said:
Yes of course that's the law I'm referring to, but nowhere does it say that you can't be offside from a backwards pass.
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It literally does.

If you're further from the opposition goal than the ball when it's played, you're not offside.

It's not backwards if you're closer to the goal than the ball.

Last night, VAR deemed that Kane was closer to the goal than the ball when Emerson Royal headed it across.
 
WilliamMunny said:
It's interesting to see the opinions on this, but it's a logical fallacy to state that as you have to be ahead of the ball to be offside, you can't therefore be offside from a backwards pass.
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You can. Seen mainly from crosses. Could also happen from a sideways or slightly backwards pass if a striker is running away from goal to receive.

It's rare, but it does happen.

Like said many times above, the statement in the law is about the players position relative to the ball when it's played. No reference to the direction of the ball.
 
TeaCider said:
It literally does.

If you're further from the opposition goal than the ball when it's played, you're not offside.

It's not backwards if you're closer to the goal than the ball.
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It usually does work out like that, but the law relates to the position of the player, not the direction of the ball.
As a fairly extreme example - more likely to occur at lower level football but the same laws apply - if a ball is played backwards and gets stuck in the mud (or whatever), if a player who was stood in front of the ball and in an offside position when the ball was played reaches it first, he is then offside. Despite the ball being played backwards.
 
TeaCider said:
It literally does.

If you're further from the opposition goal than the ball when it's played, you're not offside, that is all backwards passes.

It's not backwards if you're closer to the goal than the ball.

Last night, VAR deemed that Kane was closer to the goal than the ball when Emerson Royal headed it across.
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It literally does say you can't be offside from a backwards pass? Show me where!

"Last night, VAR deemed that Kane was closer to the goal than the ball when Emerson Royal headed it across." Exactly, and the direction of the pass is wholly irrelevant. That's my question - why do so many people think that because Emerson Royal headed the ball backwards, it means that Kane cannot be offside.

You're kind of agreeing with me but not at the same time.
 
Rofesleg said:
It usually does work out like that, but the law relates to the position of the player, not the direction of the ball.
As a fairly extreme example - more likely to occur at lower level football but the same laws apply - if a ball is played backwards and gets stuck in the mud (or whatever), if a player who was stood in front of the ball and in an offside position when the ball was played reaches it first, he is then offside. Despite the ball being played backwards.
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But that player would have been offside to begin with, as they're closer to goal than the ball and not offset by defenders.

That's always been the case.

Dier, Conte, and most of the press are arguing that Kane was behind the ball and it was played back to him.

VAR is saying that Kane was ahead of it.
 
WilliamMunny said:
I was genuinely amazed that Eric Dier argued this point to the referee in defence of the Kane goal ruled out for offside. Then even more amazed to find Rio Ferdinand, Jamie O'Hara and several other pundits state the same thing. Looking at comments online, it seems that half the country thinks there is an actual rule about this.

I'm 48 and to my knowledge the direction of the ball has never been relevant to offside, so why do so many people, including the majority of players it seems, think you can't be offside if the ball goes backwards?
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That’s why you can’t be offside from a corner!!!
 
WilliamMunny said:
It literally does say you can't be offside from a backwards pass? Show me where!

"Last night, VAR deemed that Kane was closer to the goal than the ball when Emerson Royal headed it across." Exactly, and the direction of the pass is wholly irrelevant. That's my question - why do so many people think that because Emerson Royal headed the ball backwards, it means that Kane cannot be offside.

You're kind of agreeing with me but not at the same time.
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Because people are thinking that it was played backwards to Kane who they think is onside.

I've seen people try to argue that the defender was deliberately playing the ball to discount Kane's position, though I agree that it wasn't deliberate, but I've personally not seen anybody saying that it doesn't matter if Kane was offside because it was passed backwards.
I've only seen people saying that Kane wasn't offside because the ball was passed back to him.

I'm not in the country right now, so I've only seen the text comments, maybe people were saying it on BT broadcast last night, in which case that's fair enough in calling them out.

But that's nothing to do with the VAR decision, which was that Kane was always ahead of the ball.

No idea why it took them 5 minutes to decide.
 
TeaCider said:
Because people are thinking that it was played backwards to Kane who they think is onside.

I've seen people try to argue that the defender was deliberately playing the ball to discount Kane's position, though I agree that it wasn't deliberate, but I've personally not seen anybody saying that it doesn't matter if Kane was offside because it was passed backwards.
I've only seen people saying that Kane wasn't offside because the ball was passed back to him.

I'm not in the country right now, so I've only seen the text comments, maybe people were saying it on BT broadcast last night, in which case that's fair enough in calling them out.

But that's nothing to do with the VAR decision, which was that Kane was always ahead of the ball.

No idea why it took them 5 minutes to decide.
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Fair enough if you haven't seen the comments, but that's exactly why I started this post, because Eric Dier, Rio Ferdinand, Jamie O'Hara and other pundits thought you cannot be offside from a backwards pass. So many online comments say the same thing.

I agree with everything else you're saying, i.e. Kane was ahead of the ball and the touch off the defender wasn't deliberate.
 
Less disallowed goers please , for the sake of the sport !!
So Thicker lines on the VAR Please .
So that if an Attacker would have appeared to be level to the naked eye of a linesman - a goal would stand . (Say 15cm margin of error . )
And just use the feet of the players as a reference.
Simples .
 
TeaCider said:
But that player would have been offside to begin with, as they're closer to goal than the ball and not offset by defenders.

That's always been the case.

Dier, Conte, and most of the press are arguing that Kane was behind the ball and it was played back to him.

VAR is saying that Kane was ahead of it.
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Exactly. So the direction of movement of the ball is irrelevant.
I'm not sure who I am disagreeing with and who I am agreeing with now :)

Although earlier you said the law literally says you can't be offside from a backwards pass. Which I think you now seem to agree is incorrect.
 
RilloRed said:
Less disallowed goers please , for the sake of the sport !!
So Thicker lines on the VAR Please .
So that if an Attacker would have appeared to be level to the naked eye of a linesman - a goal would stand . (Say 15cm margin of error . )
And just use the feet of the players as a reference.
Simples .
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Exactly this. I posted this idea a few weeks back. Just has out the area within 15cm either side of the line and stick with on-field decision.

They would need to make sure that copied images with the lines as they are now weren't leaked otherwise the refs and linesmen would get berated.
 
RilloRed said:
Less disallowed goers please , for the sake of the sport !!
So Thicker lines on the VAR Please .
So that if an Attacker would have appeared to be level to the naked eye of a linesman - a goal would stand . (Say 15cm margin of error . )
And just use the feet of the players as a reference.
Simples .
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They already do that. You'll have noticed there are far fewer goals disallowed for very marginal offsides this year in the PL. The champions league might be different.

However. I am going to massively disagree with you anyway. I want correct decisions, not wrong decisions quickly. Correct decisions quickly would be the best and technology will move along to be able to call offsides in real time before too long so there is no need for any delay/analysis. Sporting are still in the Champions League because they deserve to be. Spurs scored a goal that was offside so it wouldn't have been fair for the goal to stand and for them to have gone through.

I'm not going to champion VAR as being perfect but it is a step in the right direction and will improve (both accuracy and speed) as technology and referees improve.
 
Argued with a lad at work today about this who couldn't understand why it was offside.

Amazes me that in 2022, grown men still don't understand how offside works.
 
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