British Steel to be nationalised?

[MolteniArcore]

Green energy company owner in "renewables are cheaper" shocker.

Ecotricity make millions every year from ROCs so it's hardly a surprise that Dale Vince promotes the lie.

Strange how all sides of the house were promoting this ‘lie’ too.

Even if it is a lie, when you look at the history of ‘big oil’ and how even back in the 50’s were denying and suppressing information on climate change why would anyone believe a word on what they would say? It is in their interests to keep drilling. Any big change that would stop that would be given both barrels.

It would make sense that renewables are cheaper. There is even a report on it in the Commons Library. Or is this just a massive lie from the British Elite?

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/why-is-cheap-renewable-electricity-so-expensive/

 

[BoroBosco]

Strange how all sides of the house were promoting this ‘lie’ too.

Even if it is a lie, when you look at the history of ‘big oil’ and how even back in the 50’s were denying and suppressing information on climate change why would anyone believe a word on what they would say? It is in their interests to keep drilling. Any big change that would stop that would be given both barrels.

It would make sense that renewables are cheaper. There is even a report on it in the Commons Library. Or is this just a massive lie from the British Elite?

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/why-is-cheap-renewable-electricity-so-expensive/

Have you read the report?

"In each half-hour trading period, each electricity generator bids the price it will accept to generate electricity, according to how expensive the electricity is to produce." This is not true for renewables, they bid in low to ensure all the available capacity is taken up safe in the knowledge that they will get paid their strike price or the marginal price and ROCs for every MWh they generate. They even get curtailment payments when the grid can't handle what they want to produce.

"Renewable generators who are part of the renewable obligation government scheme may profit from selling electricity to the wholesale market and by selling renewable obligation certificates (issued for each unit of electricity generated), but they may have already sold the electricity at a lower price ahead of this." What they don't tell you is these certificates are sold to the electricity suppliers who pass the cost on to the consumers. With a current price of around £59/ROC some offshore wind producers are getting £118/MWh on top of the wholesale price they achieved. How is this cheaper than gas when gas produced electricity was at an average of £84/MWh in 2024

"Contract for Difference (CfD)renewable generators selling into the wholesale electricity market will not profit as they receive their agreed ‘strike price’ whether the wholesale price is above or below this." What they don't tell you is that CfD generators have only paid back for three quarters in the last seven years and have received net payments of £8.9 billion. Remember this is on top of the wholesale price they got for the electricity generated.

Can you explain why "It would make sense that renewables are cheaper".

 

[caravan club]

They can make high quality steel, but it requires the use of DRI and there's nowhere in Europe that makes that.

Apparantly one has just been commisioned in Finland, among other places. Seems to be the way to if the Electric Arc plants are the way forward.

Recent Developments​

• In July 2024, Blastr Green Steel partnered with Midrex Technologies and Primetals to construct a hydrogen direct reduced iron plant in Inkoo, Finland, producing 2.0 million tons of DRI annually. The MIDREX H2 Plant, powered by up to 100% green hydrogen, will supply hot DRI for direct charging to the steel mill, as well as hot briquetted iron, enabling Blastr to decarbonize other value chains by providing ultra-low-carbon iron feedstock for its customers.

Energy costs need to be reduced in UK, apart from the demise of our Steel industry, it has also absolutely decimated our Chemical industry.

 

[MolteniArcore]

Have you read the report?

"In each half-hour trading period, each electricity generator bids the price it will accept to generate electricity, according to how expensive the electricity is to produce." This is not true for renewables, they bid in low to ensure all the available capacity is taken up safe in the knowledge that they will get paid their strike price or the marginal price and ROCs for every MWh they generate. They even get curtailment payments when the grid can't handle what they want to produce.

"Renewable generators who are part of the renewable obligation government scheme may profit from selling electricity to the wholesale market and by selling renewable obligation certificates (issued for each unit of electricity generated), but they may have already sold the electricity at a lower price ahead of this." What they don't tell you is these certificates are sold to the electricity suppliers who pass the cost on to the consumers. With a current price of around £59/ROC some offshore wind producers are getting £118/MWh on top of the wholesale price they achieved. How is this cheaper than gas when gas produced electricity was at an average of £84/MWh in 2024

"Contract for Difference (CfD)renewable generators selling into the wholesale electricity market will not profit as they receive their agreed ‘strike price’ whether the wholesale price is above or below this." What they don't tell you is that CfD generators have only paid back for three quarters in the last seven years and have received net payments of £8.9 billion. Remember this is on top of the wholesale price they got for the electricity generated.

Can you explain why "It would make sense that renewables are cheaper".

Surely here you are talking about how the market works now, not how the market would work if they changed it? Plus I am on about the price to produce, not the price to sell.

Forbes part of the conspiracy too?

81% Of Renewables Offer Cheaper Energy Than Fossil Fuels, Report Says

The world added 473 gigawatts of renewable energy capacity last year, and four-fifths of it produces power more cheaply than fossil fuels do.

www.forbes.com

 

[thewanderer]

Surely here you are talking about how the market works now, not how the market would work if they changed it? Plus I am on about the price to produce, not the price to sell.

Forbes part of the conspiracy too?

81% Of Renewables Offer Cheaper Energy Than Fossil Fuels, Report Says

The world added 473 gigawatts of renewable energy capacity last year, and four-fifths of it produces power more cheaply than fossil fuels do.

www.forbes.com

Someone has already given you the strike prices.

 

[morrissey]

I remember the similar circumstances at Redcar - there were ships off the north-east coast with coke which would have kept the coke ovens and furnaces going to buy some breathing space awaiting a rescue plan/mothballing.
No chance - the haste in which it was slammed shut was/is disgraceful, it was gone in weeks
Government of the time claimed EU laws prevented intervention, didn't stop Italy, who stated steelmaking was a matter of 'national security' and subsidised the industry.

 

[BoroBosco]

Surely here you are talking about how the market works now, not how the market would work if they changed it?

It's how the current crop of renewables will be priced for the next 12 years at least. ROCs will not end until 2037 & CfD contracts last 15 years from the start of production.

Plus I am on about the price to produce, not the price to sell.

Ignoring the fact that most people are interested in the price they have to pay, that's a strange claim when you don't know what the price to produce is for renewables. We do know that in AR5 no company was willing to bid for offshore wind farms when the strike price offered was £64/MWh and those that bid at that sort of price in AR3 are pulling the plug on the projects. We can assume that the price to produce is above that.

Forbes part of the conspiracy too?

I don't know where Forbes got their figure of 3.3 cents/kWh (£25/MWh) for onshore wind but it certainly doesn't apply to the UK . The latest CfD agreed for onshore wind is double that at over £50/MWh and the cheapest ever agreed being £45/MWh in AR3.


You haven't explained why "it would make sense for renewables to be cheaper"

 

[RedAsABeetroot]

Government of the time claimed EU laws prevented intervention, didn't stop Italy, who stated steelmaking was a matter of 'national security' and subsidised the industry.

Italy didn't use subsidies. They gave plants money for environmental improvements. It was a just a complete coincidence that those same plants were struggling financially at the time.

 

[RedAsABeetroot]

Reynolds says job changes may be needed to ensure Scunthorpe steel plant future

The Business Secretary said new technology and facilities may be part of a long-term viable future.

www.aol.co.uk

Job roles in the Steel Industry need to change, says a man who as far as I can tell has never done an honest day's work or got his hands dirty.
I sincerely hope this government is seriously involving the MP for Stockton North in its decision making on this matter.

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

Reynolds says job changes may be needed to ensure Scunthorpe steel plant future

The Business Secretary said new technology and facilities may be part of a long-term viable future.

www.aol.co.uk

Job roles in the Steel Industry need to change, says a man who as far as I can tell has never done an honest day's work or got his hands dirty.
I sincerely hope this government is seriously involving the MP for Stockton North in its decision making on this matter.

It seems a fair comment if the technology and processes have to change?

 

[Boro.Fur]

It seems a fair comment if the technology and processes have to change?

Jonathan Reynolds is a decent bloke to be fair even if he does support Sunderland.

 

[RedAsABeetroot]

It seems a fair comment if the technology and processes have to change?

It would also seem to be too early to be making such a comment as the government have only just taken control of the business. People moving to EAF is nothing new, as the government have already had a hand in helping Tata down that road at Port Talbot.