Brian Clough or Jack Charlton?

[TheWolfman]

Both legends and larger than life characters and we should be very proud that those great football men are associated with our club.

On results it would have to be the genius that was Clough all day long but sometimes the connection with a club and affinity with the fans can override that to an extent, Charlton always spoke very fondly of his time at the Boro whereas Clough had nothing good to say about the club, which is a shame, and once he settled in the Midlands I don't think he gave the North East a backwards glance.

When you know how close we came to appointing Bill Shankly when he was manager at Grimsby and how highly he spoke of our fan base and the potential within the club, he always said not hearing back from us after agreeing to join was the biggest disappointment of his managerial career.

I never knew that about shankly before my era. How come we never got back to him. Who did we appoint?

I always think it's unfair to say without Taylor clough wouldnt have achieved anything although they were a brilliant team. That leeds job with his and their players relationship with revie he was destined to fail.

Obviously a different game now but when people talk about modern managers like Mourinho, ferguson or Guardiola as the greatest managers it's not comparable to what clough achieved with the teams he took on.

 

[HolgateCorner]

I never knew that about shankly before my era. How come we never got back to him. Who did we appoint?

I always think it's unfair to say without Taylor clough wouldnt have achieved anything although they were a brilliant team. That leeds job with his and their players relationship with revie he was destined to fail.

Obviously a different game now but when people talk about modern managers like Mourinho, ferguson or Guardiola as the greatest managers it's not comparable to what clough achieved with the teams he took on.

Agree, Clough has to be the greatest of all time.

 

[Simply red]

Don Revie and Brian Clough were Boro born
We missed a trick with both.
I had the pleasure of being there when big Jack transformed us , great times in the holgate and then the chicken run or Clive road / block 2 bob end crew, Jack put us back on the map. So Jack all day long.
Brian Robson took us to another level , great decision by SG.

 

[American_Mary]

Bill Shankly and Middlesbrough:

In 1952 when David Jack resigned as Manager of Middlesbrough to look after his ill wife, Bill Shankly, was on the back of an excellent first season as manager of Grimsby, transforming their system of play, the training regime and the whole ethos within the club, 'pound for pound the best footballing team produced since the war' he was very much viewed as the next big thing and Middlesbrough duly approached, Shankly booked into a hotel in Ripon and met Harry French, the then Boro Chairman, excited at the opportunity of taking charge of a club who had finished 6th in the 1st Division only 2 seasons earlier, at the time the North East was seen very much as a hotbed of football and the move suited the fiercely ambitious Shankly.

After been shown around Ayresome Park, Shankly and French shook hands on a deal and Shankly went straight back to Cleethorpes, not even stopping overnight in Ripon, and told his wife, Ness, to get ready to move as they were off to Middlesbrough and waited for the phone call and contract offer that had been promised to make everything official.

At the time Grimsby's chairman, Arthur Drewery, was Head of the FA selection Committee and President of the Football League, and the Boro Chairman had designs on a position on that Committee, when he phoned Drewery to make official the approach for Shankly, he was told that would be fine but that it might hinder any chance he would have of furthering his ambitions within the FA, French, didn't take the approach any further and we appointed Walter Rowley.

"Missing that job was a terrible disappointment, because I was bubbling with ideas and Middlesbrough had a fantastic ground and a lot of good players, before the war they had one one of the best footballing teams in Britain. Ayresome Park represented potential, just as Liverpool did" Bill Shankly from his autobiography.

As a post script in 1974 when Shankly left Liverpool he implored the Liverpool board to appoint Jack Charlton as his replacement and was surprised and disappointed when they decided not to approach Charlton and promote Paisley from within, for the sake of harmony, for once Shankly bit his tongue and went along with the official line that Paisley was always jis choice of successor but in private he remained a very keen advocate of Charlton.

 

[Rofesleg]

I wasn’t aware of the Bill Shankly ‘snub’, interesting reading that.

In fairness to Clough there had been a bit of fiddling going on at the Boro when he was banging in the goals, he deserved a promotion and maybe there was lingering bitterness that he had been denied more England caps by the way the club was run. And let’s be honest even under Big Jack it seemed a bit small time and amateur behind the scenes.

Clough spent very big in his day at Derby and Forest to pull in the trophies, it wasn’t just done by turning the likes of John McGovern into an unlikely superstar. If he had Charlton’s team he would have wanted to break the bank to sign a top striker - do you think he would have been given the backing?

I think so. Big Jack was given backing but refused to spend the money.
He regretted both that decision and his '4 year rule'.

 

[Wiseman_Vaughn]

Don Revie and Brian Clough were Boro born
We missed a trick with both.
I had the pleasure of being there when big Jack transformed us , great times in the holgate and then the chicken run or Clive road / block 2 bob end crew, Jack put us back on the map. So Jack all day long.
Brian Robson took us to another level , great decision by SG.

This is a very good book!!

 

[johnsmithsno2]

Love them both but Cloughie for me, even though I feel guilty to Jack for saying it.

 

[The Card Cheat]

Clough was nothing special with Taylor.

When Clough was without Taylor he struggled at Leeds and after 1982 @ Forest was ordinary.

After Taylor left they played in 7 domestic cup finals at Wembley winning 5 of them, they finished 3rd in the first division in 88 and reached the Semi finals of the UEFA cup in 83, when they were only knocked out because the ref had been bribed.
I wish we were that bloody ordinary nowadays!

 

[zzzzz]

Don Revie and Brian Clough were Boro born
We missed a trick with both.
I had the pleasure of being there when big Jack transformed us , great times in the holgate and then the chicken run or Clive road / block 2 bob end crew, Jack put us back on the map. So Jack all day long.
Brian Robson took us to another level , great decision by SG.

Great post but I thought Robbo underperformed given the riches he had.
Bringing el Tel in sort of underlined that.
But agree with big Jack. A God.

 

[Squarewheelbike]

When I work the Cruise Ship's I used to get all the "Guest Speaker" gigs because, "you know who they are"! I got to do Big Jack a good few times, the man was an absolute Gentleman and a pleasure to work with. Most guest speakers do two shows, as did Jack, his League and England days and ROI. Without consultation the Cruise Director decided the passengers had enjoyed his two gigs so much he booked him in for a third, which is pretty much like asking a comic to write another load of gags at short notice. I got passed a note during a show asking to come to one of the bars, got up there, and one of the staff said, he wants to see you, pointing at Big Jack. Went to join him and he was really stressed about the extra gig and what the hell he was supposed to talk about. So I suggested his club managerial career starting with Boro, his face lit up and we spent the next hour going through his Boro days and making notes for him, and promised him I'D do some double checking of stuff and sort out his walk on/off music. Next day we met up early and went through everything and told him take your cue to walk on when you hear the Ref's whistle. Next day the Cruise Director did his spiel, I hit play for the walk on music, there was a Ref's whistle and Big Jack strode onto stage to the strains of "Up The Boro"! At the end of the gig when I was getting the Mic back from behind his ear, ha asked me "where **** did you get that from"? Well I got it from someone on here! Rest of the Cruise I was requests from holidaying fellow Teessiders to burn off a copy of it for them! In the 40+ years I've being doing this stuff, that day's right up there with the best!

 

[NoloBoro]

Not old enough to have had the pleasure of seeing Clough play or Charlton manage but two people whose opinion on all things football I tend to take notice of (Father and Uncle) state that they were both class acts.
Recall Cloughie being FOReST manager and always thought his team played lovely football. Once met big Jack at a sportsman’s dinner, really funny bloke, shook his hand at the end, he was a big powerful unit even then and he must’ve been knocking on a bit!
I think Clough for me but would’ve loved to have seen Charlton’s Champions play! UTB!!