Brexiwhingers

[coluka]

Coluka, as a very long standing member of this board and undoubtedly one of the most popular I have always read your posts and considered your views and opinions on Brexit even when they don't match my own. You're pretty much always respectful in your posts on what is without doubt a very divisive subject and that is a credit to you.

However, I have to say that this idea that we need to just move on for the greater good and leave the Brexit shambles (that, IMHO, is exactly what it is) behind us is inflammatory and divisive in itself. People can't just take it on the chin and move on when there are many metrics under which we are now much worse off individually and as a nation. Our freedoms have been eroded, not enhanced, and to suggest that those people who voted to try and avoid this mess need to just move on is akin to burying heads in the sand.

The people who are mostly going to benefit from Brexit are not the majority of the millions who voted for / were hoodwinked into it, but those small numbers of people who wield power and influence via the means of propaganda. They will benefit greatly.

The Brexit discussion is ongoing, and will be for quite some time - to try and sweep the mess under the carpet 3 weeks in when major problems are already apparent will not be the correct medicine for this illness.

You may be right, you may be wrong, i may be, only time and actions will tell. Moving forward can be working together to consider rejoining as much as the opposite. Campaigning is fine, moaning isn’t. We can move forward with life in our current constraints whatever they may be whilst looking at rejoining, if a majority to rejoin becomes the reality, great thats democracy. Standing still achieves nothing, zilch, it means we get left further behind in any direction. Moving forward does not mean standing still or stagnating, but we need to do it together where possible. The blame game has no winners. Thank you for those kind words too btw

 

[Otto42]

Emotions are still raw. Surely we can still debate the issues though? Perhaps if the opening post had been titled reasons we should re join the EU, those who voted Brexit would be less defensive?

I actually feel more comfortable and able to debate the benefits of the customs union (freedom of movement for goods and people on our doorstep) now we have left. Arguing to rejoin is a continuation of the democratic ideal.

I wonder if we will have another referendum about EU membership or closer trade links to Europe in my lifetime? Not sure it will be party policy for Labour at the next election or the one after, so maybe sometime in the 2030s.

 

[HarryVegas]

Emotions are still raw. Surely we can still debate the issues though? Perhaps if the opening post had been titled reasons we should re join the EU, those who voted Brexit would be less defensive?

I actually feel more comfortable and able to debate the benefits of the customs union (freedom of movement for goods and people on our doorstep) now we have left. Arguing to rejoin is a continuation of the democratic ideal.

I wonder if we will have another referendum about EU membership or closer trade links to Europe in my lifetime? Not sure it will be party policy for Labour at the next election or the one after, so maybe sometime in the 2030s.

I suspect that the people who so keenly led the Leave campaign will now persist in blaming the EU and we 'remoaners' for the disaster they led the country into. Moreover, it will be easier for people who followed them, and have stoutly defended their position ever since, to take their bait and continue to do so, rather than backtrack and admit the folly of our situation.

 

[Londons_Moggie]

For some pro Brexit balance this is a great article in today's Guardian by Hanns Werner Sinn who serves on the German economy ministry's advisory council. He states, "EU's Covid vaccination debacle is down to institutional inflexibility"

At this point in time, not being part of the EU has meant millions have been vaccinated and many lives have and will be saved. In anyone's world that is a good thing.

Today's Guardian

 

[SmallTown]

For some pro Brexit balance this is a great article in today's Guardian by Hanns Werner Sinn who serves on the German economy ministry's advisory council. He states, "EU's Covid vaccination debacle is down to institutional inflexibility"

At this point in time, not being part of the EU has meant millions have been vaccinated and many lives have and will be saved. In anyone's world that is a good thing.

Today's Guardian

Are the EU countries following the manufacturers regime for vaccinations? It troubles me that we aren't.

 

[Centralscrutinizer]

Are the EU countries following the manufacturers regime for vaccinations? It troubles me that we aren't.

Here's the BMJ take on it.

 

[Laughing]

Here's the BMJ take on it.

That clearly states that the protection after 21 days is unknown. However, I would say that what we in the UK are doing is based on evidence from otehr 2 dose vaccines. It may well apply to covid, but there is no trial evidence one way or the other.

As I said above a risky strategy.

 

[Londons_Moggie]

Are the EU countries following the manufacturers regime for vaccinations? It troubles me that we aren't.

I believe so but at the pace of a snail through porridge.

 

[r00fie1]

For some pro Brexit balance this is a great article in today's Guardian by Hanns Werner Sinn who serves on the German economy ministry's advisory council. He states, "EU's Covid vaccination debacle is down to institutional inflexibility"

At this point in time, not being part of the EU has meant millions have been vaccinated and many lives have and will be saved. In anyone's world that is a good thing.

Today's Guardian

Pious jingoism rules the airwaves!


I... swear by Almighty God (do solemnly, and truly declare and affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II,
Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will, as in duty bound, honestly and faithfully defend Her Majesty, Her Heirs and Successors, in Person, Crown and Dignity against all enemies, and will observe and obey all orders of Her Majesty, Her Heirs and Successors, and of the (admirals / generals/ air officers) and officers set over me.

 

[Laughing]

Hooray.
God save the Queen.

Play nice Roofie!

 

[r00fie1]

Play nice Roofie!

 

[Londons_Moggie]

Pious jingoism rules the airwaves!


I... swear by Almighty God (do solemnly, and truly declare and affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II,
Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will, as in duty bound, honestly and faithfully defend Her Majesty, Her Heirs and Successors, in Person, Crown and Dignity against all enemies, and will observe and obey all orders of Her Majesty, Her Heirs and Successors, and of the (admirals / generals/ air officers) and officers set over me.

I’m an anti royalist.

 

[r00fie1]

For some pro Brexit balance this is a great article in today's Guardian by Hanns Werner Sinn who serves on the German economy ministry's advisory council. He states, "EU's Covid vaccination debacle is down to institutional inflexibility"

At this point in time, not being part of the EU has meant millions have been vaccinated and many lives have and will be saved. In anyone's world that is a good thing.

Today's Guardian

 

[r00fie1]

I’m an anti royalist.

Congratulations.
I am an aquarian

 

[coluka]

Thats dangerously close to blaming remainers for the failure of brexit. I'll say it again: most posts I see I simply pointing out things that are actually happening as a result of brexit. We have gone from the old "project fear" guesses and now are saying things that have gone wrong.

If that comes across as negative its only because there are many negative points to brexit. Its not a negative attitude. Its just pointing out that its failing and we need to do something about it.

Firstly your opening line is a ridiculous comment, based on deflection or ignorance of my intent. I am sure you meant no harm by it nonetheless. Brexit is nobody's fault btw, it was democracy’s outcome thats all. Remainers have to bear some blame if you choose to see it that way mind surely, as they failed to persuade enough of those in the middle ground who looked at the pro’s and cons. I saw good and bad in both sides of the fence. However, blame is irrelevant we are where we are. Lets progress both brexit and explore alternate avenues in a calm, measured and respectful manner. Change back if it can be shown to benefit the UK, anything that benefits the UK is good to me, even if that were rejoining. The EU do not currently seem to see us as respectful neighbours and partners other than if it suits their cause (vaccines), fine, but you do not woo your ex back by trying to belittle her, make her poorer income wise, slagging her in public and trying to get one over her any which way you can, that just drives a bigger wedge between you and her into the arms of others.

 

[Londons_Moggie]

Firstly your opening line is a ridiculous comment, based on deflection or ignorance of my intent. I am sure you meant no harm by it nonetheless. Brexit is nobody's fault btw, it was democracy’s outcome thats all. Remainers have to bear some blame if you choose to see it that way mind surely, as they failed to persuade enough of those in the middle ground who looked at the pro’s and cons. I saw good and bad in both sides of the fence. However, blame is irrelevant we are where we are. Lets progress both brexit and explore alternate avenues in a calm, measured and respectful manner. Change back if it can be shown to benefit the UK, anything that benefits the UK is good to me, even if that were rejoining. The EU do not currently seem to see us as respectful neighbours and partners other than if it suits their cause (vaccines), fine, but you do not woo your ex back by trying to belittle her, make her poorer income wise, slagging her in public and trying to get one over her any which way you can, that just drives a bigger wedge between you and her into the arms of others.

100% agree. I hope that once we have sorted the vaccine rollout here, we offer our help to the EU if they need it, as it looks like their rollout will drag on into the last quarter of the year. It would be a good way of showing we still value them as friends and allies. Whether they would accept our help is another matter

 

[Muttley]

Brexit is nobody's fault btw, it was democracy’s outcome thats all.

The simple fact that this vote would have been declared void because of the number of infringements to the rules if it was a binding vote would suggest that someone is at fault.

But hey, let's be happy, that's the way! Sing a little happy song whilst you watch the country you thought was a good fair country for everyone to live in, turn into a xenophobic car crash.

Yippee...

we offer our help to the EU if they need it

Ha ha ha ha...

Yeah all those spare doctors and nurses we have sat around doing nothing. Let's push them over to the EU. There is going to be a horrible price to pay in mental health terms amongst those on the NHS front line. I was talking to a mate of mine who's son is a Doctor on a COVID ward in Leeds. He's worried about him, he's doing double shifts nearly every day, doesn't eat properly and some of the things he is having to do will haunt him (already do from the sound of it). We are going to lose a lot of doctors and nurses to PTSD at the end of this make no mistake.

Perhaps they're not smiling enough either?

 

[Londons_Moggie]

The simple fact that this vote would have been declared void because of the number of infringements to the rules if it was a binding vote would suggest that someone is at fault.

But hey, let's be happy, that's the way! Sing a little happy song whilst you watch the country you thought was a good fair country for everyone to live in, turn into a xenophobic car crash.

Yippee...

Ha ha ha ha...

Yeah all those spare doctors and nurses we have sat around doing nothing. Let's push them over to the EU. There is going to be a horrible price to pay in mental health terms amongst those on the NHS front line. I was talking to a mate of mine who's son is a Doctor on a COVID ward in Leeds. He's worried about him, he's doing double shifts nearly every day, doesn't eat properly and some of the things he is having to do will haunt him (already do from the sound of it). We are going to lose a lot of doctors and nurses to PTSD at the end of this make no mistake.

Perhaps they're not smiling enough either?

There are significantly more people involved than just doctors and nurses. Businesses, manufacturers, military, scientific community etc. We should offer our help to them

 

[buffaloboro]

No doubting, I just think you’re wasting your energy if you think anything can be done about Brexit in the short or medium term.

You're probably correct but nothing will be done if there's no movement to change it

 

[WoodallServices]

I take it it’s safe to assume that all the Brexiteers on here are the ones least likely to be losing their livelihood, homes and businesses etc whilst we wait to climb to these broad sunlit uplands sometime in the future!
Every time my mother says “I’m sure it will all come out in the wash” I want to say get yourself to Dover and say that to all the lorry drivers who now spend half their working week at border control!
Tying to use the vaccine roll out as a plus side to Brexit is beyond a joke. Just wait until people getting their second dose becomes a fiasco!
“Of course it’s alright to mix and match the vaccines”!
The good news is The Seychelles have said they will let anybody in who’s had the vaccine..............Oh, that’s if you’ve got proof you’ve had both doses.